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Sausage and Sargent Peppers; Angels Back?


by turfgrrl


October 1st, 2008 · 32 Comments

Now that the District B Democrats have separated themselves from Guardian Angel advocacy, the Coalition of Norwalk Neighborhood Associations (CNNA) has stepped in via Al Raymond, president of the Spring Hill Neighborhood Association. According to the Advocate:

“We’re going to try to help the police department, just be eyes and ears out on the street,” Raymond said.

Though the group has a right to organize, Police Chief Harry Rilling and Mayor Richard Moccia have opposed a Guardian Angels chapter in Norwalk, saying it would send the wrong message about the city and creates liability problems.

“I’ve never been open to a chapter,” Rilling said. “I thought it was a niche reaction to a small spike in crime.”

Common Council member Michael Geake invited Guardian Angels founder Curtis Sliwa to a public meeting in May to begin discussing a South Norwalk chapter. Some residents said they were fed up with feeling unsafe in their neighborhoods.

But the reaction hasn’t been all positive. In July, a group of Guardian Angels from the New Haven chapter were pelted with rocks and bottles at the King Kennedy public housing complex on Chestnut Street.

Raymond said that, aside from patrolling the streets, the volunteers also visit schools to present education programs. He hasn’t contacted school officials about that kind of involvement, though, and is not sure how well the group will be received.

“Yes, I have seen some . . . opposition towards it,” Raymond said. “But I think once they get here and they see what’s going on and the good that they do, I think everyone will come around and back this effort.”
Geake said five or six people are interested in joining the group. There was a Guardian Angels tent at the Oyster Festival that got a positive response, and the chapter is supported by the Coalition of Norwalk Neighborhood Associations.

Raymond said once he gets enough volunteers, they will go through a rigorous training program with the group, which operates in 138 cities and 12 countries.

Sliwa, a controversial figure who founded the Guardian Angels in New York City in 1979, said he thinks city officials are rushing to judgment.

“You would think the Guardian Angels were the Hells Angels trying to start up a chapter,” Sliwa said.

Opposition to the Guardian Angels is nothing new, but Sliwa said some cities, including Washington, D.C., have formed partnerships with them, and he hopes to do the same in Norwalk.

Sliwa said the group provides cities free help to deal with big problems.

“We’re talking prime-time in terms of gangs, drugs and trouble,” Sliwa said. “You can’t cosmetically paint South Norwalk as the place of bars and bistros.”

Now its somewhat ironic that Silwa would say something so asinine about big “crime” problems and cities. He started out in NYC, patrolling those bars and bistro lined streets because, that’s where the crime was then. Gangs, drugs and trouble follow the bar scene like ants follow picnics. So to dismiss our cosmetically enhanced bar and bistro district is so very disingenuous. Which should be a warning to those that think Guardian Angel activity is somehow going to change the dynamics of crime in Norwalk. Gaze up the line to New Haven and see how that little experiment has worked out.

The truth about crime is that, well, let’s just say that this subject was covered in an old Quincy episode, the lesson starts about 1:40 minutes into it:

source: Advocate, Angels group gains steam, By Lisa Chamoff, 10/01/2008

Tags: Current affairs · Norwalk

32 Responses so far “Sausage and Sargent Peppers; Angels Back?”



  • 1 Diane C: police support // Oct 1, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    From 8-26-08 NewHavenRegister.com
    “POLICE DEPARTMENT brass has publicly WELCOMED the group, as it would partnerships with Block Watches and other community groups.”

    From 8-28-08 Boston.com News
    Amid crime streak, Angels win over city -
    They’ve won over a wary community.
    “Initially people were wondering why the Angels were here and if they would be good for the city,” said Brockton POLICE CHIEF William Conlon. “But people are seeing there is no real downside to them being here. They are a volunteer group that is concerned with helping others. The community has been accepting of them, and WE ARE APPRECIATIVE TO HAVE THEM IN BROCKTON.”

    (the capilization in quotes is my own- DC)

  • 2 Al Raymond // Oct 1, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    Diane C Thank you for your input on the GA . I would like also to add that if anyone is interested in volunteering there time PLEASE CALL 838- 1869 or go to norwalkneighbors.com and click on G A contact .Thank you ALL for your support.

  • 3 Diane C: et tu TG // Oct 1, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    TG: for all the good you do, I am VERY surprised at your attitude and resistance toward this program - are you a defeatist who feels that since every crime can’t be prevented, we should do nothing?
    Also, I think you, as many others, have an impression of the GA organization as Red Beret Street Patrols, which is now, of course, recognized around the world. But that is only one component of GA: others are aimed more toward proactively preventing crime and criminal activities, and some seek alternative outlets to youth gangs, including Urban Angels, an in-school program for the 12-16 year olds that are not inspired by programs like DARE; Junior Angels for the 7-11 year olds; also this Cyber-Angels that works to prevent internet crime and stop online pedophiles; Senior Citizen programs to teach safety; Teach-the-Teacher, a new program aimed at teaching classroom management techniques.
    On top of all that is civic duty, assisting in emergencies and disasters, providing crowd and traffic control assistance to police, fire and EMS personnel, and the list goes on and on.
    Please go to guardianangels.org and read about the comprehensive programs that GA provides, and you will see why CNNA and others support this initiative.

  • 4 Anonymous // Oct 1, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    “I’ve never been open to a chapter,” Rilling said. “I thought it was a niche reaction to a small spike in crime.”

    yep the same ole same ole,like all his new officers are going to tell him something he doesn’t want to know.A new breed of kiss asses just appointed to the police dept.

    All the plans at the train station has put the advisory panel off till Dec hearing from the mayor he is playing games with the safety of the riders
    on the MTA.

    All in the guise of redevelopment,why in the hell would anyone want to give some of the rift raff a reason to hang around Sono train station with an empty cup from the coffee shop not the MTA or the Norwalk police.

    listen up people more trouble coming down the pike gangs were South Norwalk not just a line to get into rain,the other line was from Rillings where he said no problems just another crock according to his men that were chasing trouble around Sono all night.

    Why is there negeative comments ask your new residents at Maritime Condo’s crime has found them on north water st and they are pissed as of recent days.

    The disgust builds guess what it will continue

  • 5 Anonymous // Oct 1, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    Dianne look into Dicky Sproules record as a police chief in Brockton seems he had a condition that Rilling may have who knows.

    I could name all the guys I worked with on the Brockton police dept and let them tell you the Angels are working.

    A shame the Hour doesn’t report the news you would read a spike in crime.

    Even the Advocate reporters leave out things,Maritime garage was full for the fair,parking spaces were taken and blocked on the street ,Haviland parking garage was closed what that was a no brainer but Moccia taking some sort of credit that the Maritine was full,games just like the crime reports continue to be inacurate and false.

    Norwalk does have smart people who read between the lines they understand whats going on.

  • 6 Diane C: change of hearts // Oct 1, 2008 at 5:11 pm

    Anon #5 - thanks for saying what so many fear to say about the realities of crime and other quality issues. As to Brockton, I think you are talking about the “don’t tell me how to do my job” syndrome, but now current chief and residents are sold on program. I’m gonna slip our chief a couple of pills to remedy the syndrome - they are called “people are here to help you, and support you, and make you and your team proud” pills. It takes a brave man to admit a problem, and a stronger one to accept help, and a bigger man to admit he has reconsidered and changed his mind. The respect he would garner from coming to the table with an open mind doesn’t happen every day, and would really speak volumes to how positive and proactive our community really is.

  • 7 Anonymous // Oct 1, 2008 at 5:51 pm

    no I was mentioning the former chief of Brockton had a bad coke habit caught stealing from the evidence room a few years back I went to school with the mayor of Brockton can’t be compared to ours yet the cities run about the same on drugs crime and population.

    They even had a famous boxer just like Norwalk Marvin, so the cities are alike in many ways. Only thing is they found people to run the city right.Not into the ground.

  • 8 Diane C: oops // Oct 1, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    Guessing you don’t mean Coca Cola, huh? New Brockton slogan “Welcome to Brockton, MA - its Norwalk, only better!”
    Next I will be sure to google the recommended study name, but I’m betting that police chief Sprouls would REALLY have been opposed to GA!

  • 9 turfgrrl // Oct 1, 2008 at 9:36 pm

    Diane C: Defeatist no, cynic yes. And cynics like me tend to remain skeptical of any group, like the guardian angels that propagate a form of vigilantism. Call it the rent a cop syndrome. Or the minutemen border patrols. See, I idealistically believe that government is there to serve the public good, which means that we entrust our crime prevention enforcement stuff to the police, because they are the governmental body that we fund to do that service, the governmental body that is in fact trained to do that service. Is it a perfect system? No, but then that’s the cynic in me speaking. Nothing is ever perfect. But if we strive to make our imperfect systems work better, we get the better results.

    To seek a diversion of energy, which is what this Guardian Angel infatuation is, imho, then we are not striving to make our imperfect system better. We are, essentially giving up on the police. I vehemently disagree with that approach.

    Yes, community groups should be active in crime prevention, but in working with the police force. And focusing on where the crime is. Data driven, community based policing is something that should be implemented in Norwalk. The reality is that poverty breeds criminal activity. Not exclusively, but in enough of a correlation that says that if you really want to reduce crime, get a handle on the systemic causes of poverty in Norwalk and work on investing in programs that empower individuals to earn a living wage either by providing educational and/or job opportunities.

    There is not a single solution to reducing crime, but there’s enough data out there to suggest best practices in communities nationwide. The GA is not amongst them.

  • 10 Anonymous // Oct 2, 2008 at 1:53 am

    maybe its his arogance for most of us its his confidence and lack of that with our police dept.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfsoPIxGFxw

  • 11 Ex Cop // Oct 2, 2008 at 8:33 am

    Norwalk had auxiliary police for many years. I think they were first organised in the early 40s, when many Norwalk officers were in military service. They wore police uniforms, carried weapons, and patrolled with police officers, effectively making some patrol car two man units, eliminating the need for a second car to respond for backup to every call. They did not have arrest power but assisted when arrests were made.
    Somebody decided to convert the auxiliaries to special status (with arrest power)and give them access to paid overtime jobs. The regular officers resented the competition for overtime and the entire operation was disbanded. The chief at the time blamed one special officer who complained to the state labor board about an illegal local requirement for each special officer to donate a certain amount of work time without pay each month. The State said such a requirement was illegal for any paid employees.
    There is no reason why the City could not form another auxiliary police group. There is a cost factor for uniforms and training, but it is minimal, if no power of arrest is involved, and the department could certainly use the extra volunteer help. New York City uses 4500 auxiliary police who volunteer over a million hours of service a year.
    An Angels chapter in Norwalk would need to enlist and train a simlar group of volunteers who would not work as closely with the police and take the risk of unarmed foot patrol in high crime areas. How many volunteers will step up. ?

    A book published in Westport gives a lot of information on auxiliary police.

    Auxiliary Police: The Citizen’s Approach to Public Safety
    Book by Martin Alan Greenberg; Greenwood Press, 1984. 236 pgs.

  • 12 Diane C: long, but hear me out.. // Oct 2, 2008 at 10:11 am

    TG: let me answer your reply point by point, because it seems amazing to me just how far apart on this issue we are:
    1) “Propagate a form of vigilantism” - I guess “form” will allow you to deny calling GA vigilantes, but let me correct here anyway. Webster defines vigilante as volunteer that “suppresses and punishes crime” & “doer of justice”. Implied in that definition is a judge-juror-executioner mentality that is not inherent in the GA programs.. Te GA seek to deter crime using non-violent, unarmed activities, they don’t make arrests; they don’t dole out punishment, etc.
    2) Yes, government is here to “serve” and protect, and we should be able to “entrust our crime prevention stuff” to them, and they ARE hired, trained, and paid to do exactly that. But when that fails, and there is no open dialogue of its a) failure b) lack of short & long-term solutions and c) their public denial of any ill effects of failure - well, then we have some big problems! I can say, imho, that NPD has met all 3 conditions above.
    3) Enlisting support of GA including their educational initiatives in no way implies we have “given up on the police”. In fact, it is BECAUSE we have not given up on them that we seek to supplement and support THEIR efforts, both on the streets and in the classrooms (DARE, etc).
    4) “Should be active, but in working with police force” - Turfie, Turfie,..we HAVE tried working with them - it is difficult to help with a problem when the answer is “what problem?”-crime is down, streets are safe, blah blah - (I’ll get to fact-gathering and data analysis in a sec). You cannot work with a group on a problem if that group contends there is NO problem.
    5)”Data-driven community based policing should be implemented” – DUH! Go ahead TG, and just try to get any meaningful data from NPD - other progressive cities have data available on-line to citizens, ranging from simply to sophisticated queries and report-writer capabilities. Good luck getting stats from NPD, by address, by crime, by cases reported vs arrests vs conviction. And look at the timeliness of the data – mostly year-old federal government stats. At one crime forum, wanted to discuss such crimes as robbery of pregnant woman at East Norwalk ATM, we asked “where and what are the problems and what can we citizens do to help” – Answer: “GPS device thefts are way up, so be sure to lock your cars and keep GPS out of sight”. WTF WTF WTF. Next day I read about man being mugged and beaten the night before on East Avenue, and wonder if he first locked up his GPS device. As to data-driven programs – that takes money, and many of us support budget increases for the police to be sure they are well-trained, well-informed, well-equipped. During my “need money for flood mitigation” days, you know I said ONLY public safety should have had a higher priority, including fully funding the police and fire departments. It’s not that we don’t have the money for data gathering and analysis, it’s that our officials fail to see the value thereof. Data gathering should be followed by analysis & reporting, yet the old business adage of “what gets measured gets done” clearly does not apply to any operating principals of the NPD
    6) “Poverty breeds criminal activity” and I can’t argue there. That is why data-driven decisions would be so valuable if NPD could produce and analyze the data. They would focus on housing projects; get into community policing where little kids know and look up to their local “beat” officer; and take a role in positive activities. And yes, support juvenile intervention systems like those recently highlighted in Stamford.
    7) Finally, “data that suggests best practices” not including GA? Can you cite any published best practices studies that specifically exclude them? Are you assuming they are not among the recommendations because they are not named specifically? Perhaps they are simply called “community-based neighborhood watch & patrol programs”? I’ll do a little research on my own with this point.

    Sorry, everybody, for this lengthy post….

  • 13 Anonymous // Oct 2, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    Ever wonder why there is no data to support the Angels?

    maybe Dianne some in Norwalk can’t fathom how safe it would be for their child to be escorted to and from the South Norwalk library so they can study and make it to school the next day.Computers are available at the library an item scarce in some low income homes.There are other examples on how the Angels work yet data isn’t available to suggest anything.Course classes some of which most of us attend are text book not hands on in the streets,so its easy to understand the need to teach reach out and explain how the other half live.

    Key may be low income and poor are not in the loop when data is shown its a well know fact most that need to give data are locked behind doors staying safe from crime.Live their existance watching the leaves change color and seasons change.

    Norwalk CT Crime Statistics (2006 Crime Data)
    We’re sorry. We currently don’t have any crime statistics for Norwalk on file. We are always adding more data, so please check back soon, Its simple ask Rilings there is no crime.

    The lasting impact of the group, criminologist O’Donnell said, might be to put more pressure on Boston and other cities to boost their fight against crime.

    “They did embarrass city officials here,” said O’Donnell, who was a New York City cop after the Guardian Angels started in 1979. “Reporters would walk up to subway riders and they’d say, ‘At least somebody’s here — the cops aren’t.’ ”

    The FBI says violent crime increased for the first half of 2006 and all of 2005, the first uptick nationally since 2001……….Now there is a surprise,problem is for a report to be substantial its years before the results are written ….

    DO WE HAVE YEARS TO CONVINCE?

    can you trust data?

    This next snippet has changed we are still waiting for last years data

    Through the 90’s Norwalk’s population has grown by about 6%. It is estimated that in the first 5 years of this decade the population of Norwalk has grown by about 2%.

    Norwalk’s property crime levels tend to be about the same as Connecticut’s average level. The same data shows violent crime levels in Norwalk tend to be higher than Connecticut’s average level.

    Has our police dept grown 6% ? Has our budget to fight crime increased 6%?

    numbers mean nothing to victims numbers mean nothing to those effected by crime so data and numbers mean little to those who want change.

    Doran said residents and business owners in many parts of town have been eager to have the Guardian
    Angels around. She and others think the group has been effective where its members have had a presence

    what do business owners know anyway so yes there is no data just talk.But after 20 years no commission no judicial branch has done a real study?

    There is no data so far whats that tell you?

  • 14 turfgrrl // Oct 2, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    Diane C: Okay if point by point is whatcha want …
    1. Batman and Spiderman are vigilantes. Neither doles out justice other than depositing super criminals to the local police department in that super hero comic book characters sorta way. Which is a roundabout way to get to probable cause, the fourth amendment and who is best schooled in the practice of understanding such constitutional issues. The mere fact of crime prevention patrols does not exclude characterization of vigilantism, holy smoke signals!

    2. Failures? Yipes what town are you living in? Is there rampant crime in Norwalk? I don’t think so. Have the NPD adjusted patrols, areas to patrol based on examination of activity? I think they have. So what makes you think that there is failure? I don’t see an abnormal trend of anything other than the cyclical trends that we’ve seen before.

    3. Have the NPD not attended meetings to hear concerns, and responded to issues? Have they not made arrests on most of the major crimes? Just where is this absence of police presence anywhere that requires others?

    4. But if crime is down, then what is wrong with that response? What category of crime is causing this concern that it is in fact trending upward and a problem? What unsolved crimes are there to be concerned about? Please explain.

    5. And how do you even make those assumptions? The FBI uniform crime stats are what every police department in the country reports into, and they are delayed as is most statistical reporting. Certainly I have seen incident reports by geographic area, that was obtained from the NPD, so they do have that capability. So the question is to what end do you want incident reports? A scattershot plot map to show all muggings for calendar year ‘08? Robberies? Alarms going off in the middle of the night? And yes GPS thefts are way up, all over the country. Mock the statistic but it is real. You are making assumptions that the NPD is not using statistical analysis to track crime, because you don’t have access to it? Is that really the gist? And exactly then how is the GA going to pick where to patrol?

    6.Yep, assigning officers to beat is the backbone of community based patrolling.

    7. The FBI produces them. There are law enforcement and criminal justice text books on the subject. Then there’s a recent report called, Community policing and social service partnerships: lessons from New England. In short all sorts of references to develop an argument on what are best practices.

  • 15 Anonymous // Oct 2, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    Send Al Ramond Mike geeke and Diane C out on patrol and I would be all for it, otherwise let the police do it or bring back the aux police. The gaurdian angles is a stupid idea like the stupid names sasuage and so forth that they call themself.

  • 16 turfgrrl // Oct 2, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    anonymous 13: Apparently your grasp of statistics is only matched by your grasp of using google.
    2007 stats. perpetuating false information is much like repeatedly yelling fire in a crowded room. You have been warned.
  • 17 Anonymous // Oct 2, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    poverty isn’t fueling the gangs money and greed and opt where else could a 14 year old make $200 a day by waking up and going outside of his house?

    be serious

    pverty where all the kids have cell phones and new cars minus a job its not rocket science who wants to work for minimum wage?

    logic runs on thin ice when these examples are made.It is what it is parents church morales are all abandoned the only thing left is law and order some simply can’t be helped or lumped into some social disorder from existing data to resolve .

  • 18 Anonymous // Oct 2, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    I guess the only question to ask is,does everyone trust the data coming out of the Norwalk police dept?

  • 19 Diane C: Pasta Fagiole here // Oct 2, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    #15 - Al Raymond has patrolled on several occasions with Angels, and so did Julie Burton once - Mike Geake, not so much, but he walks with a cane so might be tough on patrol duty.
    Moi? Already confessed to Curtis Sliwa on the record that I am biggest coward you have ever met - afraid of my own shadow. Patrol no - anything else, yes. Except now if you give me a gun like our patrolmen have…then I might consider.

    TG: thanks to the great response new thread has on Emergency Shelter issues, I have been out all day shopping and going to shelter with donation, and have zoning tonite. I shall answer your point-by-points later this evening. Holy pepper spray Batman, is it already 5:35pm? Gotta go and do NES thread update now that Carole has returned my call…….sorry no time to spell check

  • 20 Anonymous // Oct 2, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    I still think of the night East Norwalk invited the police to a meeting.All those in the room recall what happened they listened to concerns and then the police refused to address the guy who was beaten at the train station as if it didn’t happened.That night most went into that room knowing the facts and waited for it to become a subject that is what the meeting was all about.This was a classic example of not telling the public what they need to know to keep safe.

    We all remember that #12 we all saw it happen.Crime was not an issue in East Norwalk since then St Thomas has been hit how many times?That answer sounds like who is on first.A shame the curch has edured so much.

    Defend the fort while all the others sneak out the back shows us all the agrument belongs in the next election.

  • 21 Diane C: exactly! // Oct 2, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    #20- well said - they cannot re-write history! We all witnessed the dog and pony show that the good soldiers performed, and I hardly fault them as they appear to be following orders, though I wish either one of them had had the guts to speak the truth. Had I not been one of the hosts of that event I would have been in the audience demanding accurate, timely crime stats, data on exactly how many reported crimes there are and where, and real answers to the problems of patrol and enforcement. As ENNA board member and host, good manners and forum protocol prohibited me from doing so. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Next public forum (if ever there is)I will be in audience, true stats in hand,challenging the status quo.
    Not enough cops they say? Well, I don’t see the chief and the brass out on Saturday mornings in front of city hall holding up signs lobbying for more funds in the budget for additional police, do you? If they did, the entire city would be behind them supporting their requests for staff and equipment. But since they contend that crime is not a problem here, why on earth would he ask for more police officers? Ugh, don’t even get me started -

  • 22 Ex Cop // Oct 2, 2008 at 8:28 pm

    New York City had to be dragged into the electronic age when Bratton was the commissioner and a guy named Jack Maple was the in-house statistics expert. They started a process called comstat where stats were reviewed for patterns and commanding officers had to account for what was being done. It was tough on commanding officers, at first, as most had little or no accounatability up until then. The results were amazing. Crime stats fell like a stone. Norwalk has the ability to get any stats they want for the last 24hrs, several days, or any other interval. I don’t know what use they are making of this ability, which they had many years ago, but it sounds like it is not being utilized as well as it could be. Maybe a few volunteer computer geeks could be a big help.

  • 23 Diane C: what you don't know.... // Oct 2, 2008 at 8:42 pm

    Ex-cop, maybe it is beyond “what gets measured, gets done”, as clearly proven in NYC. Here it sounds more like “what you don’t know can’t hurt ya” or “what you don’t know doesn’t produce more workload”.
    As to data online for citizens, look at even a simple query system from Charlotte NC:
    http://maps.cmpdweb.org/cmpdnet/quickSearch.aspx
    put in street, geographic search distance, and either request data on either reported incidents or on calls for service. Two seconds later, up pops the data, with at least 32 different crime categories. And that is a simple example!
    Here are some links on their page for citizen involvement:
    Crime Prevention Resources:
    Patrol Divisions
    Crime Mapping
    Crime Prevention Unit
    Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design (CPTED)
    National Night Out
    Neighborhood Watch
    Crime Prevention - Safety Guide

    And get this! They publish their crime stats monthly! No kidding! Here is August 2008:

    CMPD - Crime Statistics Summary for August 2008
    (released September 30, 2008)

    Through the end of August, the number of violent crime rose 1.4% compared to last year; and the number of property Index crimes rose by 0.9%.

    To date there have been 54 criminal homicides this year compared to 49 in 2007.

    Two other violent categories experienced decreases over the last year, while one showed an increase:
    o Robberies decreased 2.8%.
    o Rapes decreased 2.1%.
    o Aggravated assaults increased 4.9%.

    Burglary overall in the first eight months of the year was down 1.0%, taking into account an increase of 10.2% in residential cases and a decrease of 24.1% in commercial cases.

    Reports of vehicle thefts decreased by 2.7% this year.

    Larceny cases rose by 2.5% through August. Larcenies from auto have been steadily decreasing since May. During August, they decreased 23.3%.

    Arson declined through August by 17.9%

    Both the number of clearances of Index offenses and the clearance rate rose this year: 6,120 cases cleared this year compared to 5,515 in the same period last year.

    Arrests have increased by 5.2% compared to the first eight months of 2007.

    Citations rose 4.2% compared to the number recorded last year. The largest portion of that increase was in hazardous traffic citations up 8.5%.

    Through August, 38 fatal traffic crashes resulted in the deaths of 26 vehicle occupants and 12 pedestrians.

    Why can’t Norwalk collect, analyze, publish, and utilize this data?

  • 24 Anonymous // Oct 2, 2008 at 8:45 pm

    #9 turfgrrl the thing you forget to mention is that the Norwalk Police are not doing the job of protecting the community…With this in mind, I say not only do we need the guardian angles, we should welcome them with open arms. I for one say please please guardian angles come to Norwalk and do what the Police cannot…Protecting the good citizens of Norwalk

  • 25 Diane C: more visibility is key // Oct 2, 2008 at 8:55 pm

    #24 hang on - they’re comin’ - in the meantime, provide Al Raymond with info on where they are needed, what types of criminal activity is happening, and how you think GA can best help
    in your neighbhorhood.
    Go to www.norwalkneighborhoods.com
    and please click on GA link to send email to Al.

  • 26 Anonymous // Oct 2, 2008 at 11:11 pm

    when talking data whats increased this year in Norwalk? Not able to say why is that? Where are last months figures?Does anyone think the crime in Norwalk has decreased?Has the Gaurdian Angels created any problems for the Norwalk police dept?

    Even in class they tell you its the here and now not years back that helps most departments.Its the shortfalls the loss of officers the loss of cruisers the loss of morale.

    No matter what is said no matter what is contested maybe we should take a minute to wish the Norwalk officer who was hurt tonight a speedy recovery.Injuries are not counted in data the city can’t afford to be even 1 man down when talking coverage.It was what only a hand injury yet an officer hurt is never a good thing.

  • 27 Anonymous // Oct 3, 2008 at 11:08 pm

    Could we address traffic calming? After a state grant and patting shoulders of a great job done, we still have had 24 hours of the worst set of accidents Norwalk has endured in years…

    Let’s start with the Fort Point one tonight that closed the street for over two hours, took many Norwalk fire firefighters to take care of an endless amount of flares in the street by police plus injured taken to the hospital. Rescue and engine three engine plus the deputy car was there. Engine five was out on yet another call at the same time .

    Last night rte 136 was closed on Wilson St and Cove in Rowayton where two head on crashes occured by the same car, why life was not taken from speed was obviously a miracle. Police cars and fire personnel spent 5 hours blocking 136 and because the Norwalk police did not cooperate with the press by releasing any details about the horrific accident, the press could not report it -and so it must not have happened. Rowayton residents stood and watched for over an hour to free a trapped woman but again no press no nothing. Reason for this? When the press asked the police they said nothing happened. This is why most people in Norwalk understand the police and fire are errant in reporting to the public areas of concern. What did this accident cost? Maybe $5,000 dollars as we had many ambulances many firefighters, some of which drew overtime from station five. They responded minutes before shift change and the Rowyaton fire dept with their jaws of life and three trucks including 15 men responded plus the 8 Norwalk officers who investigated the accident until 10:30 pm when the call came in at 5:30 or so all worked like pros making sure loss of life was not the outcome. Then the state of Ct had to come to spread sand down for large amounts of fuel spilled by a landscaping truck. This was a very large debris field that extended for about 5oo feet as this was not just a fender bender.

    Do we trust what is being told? No! Where are all the residents who gathered to watch the Rowayton fire dept in my estimation do an outstanding job with what was apparrently a horrendous accident even for a veteran like myself. No praise for anyone Norwalk police and fire. Did we have an office hurt last night? Yes, documentation no, it’s a secret why tell the public anything.

    We gauge what happens in the city by what we read about in the papers and hear on the news & radio. The press is not getting access, why is that? It’s a matter of public record just like reporting to the FBI data bank. Is it accurate? I don’t think so. I think we need what we all looked for at election time - accountability. Do we have it?

    Just ask any resident who watched the rescue last night, then ask the Hour and The Advocate why didn’t you cover the heroics of the police officers and the firefighters?

    It’s like the city treats its public service employees like second class citizens when they do a great job.

    There was more to report but I wear out my welcome. Once I started tonight I simply pointed out speed is still a problem and you would think after an accident like last night there would be some traffic enforcement at Wilson and Cove but there was none on Friday, the day everyone drives fast home what do the residents think? Trucks still come thru at a high rate of speeds and Norwalk simply can’t have any additional enforcemnet when regular calls get stacked for delayed response… When does data reflect what actually happens in the city of Norwalk?

  • 28 Diane C: Point/Counterpoint // Oct 3, 2008 at 11:19 pm

    Oh, let’s not do the “Jane, you ignorant *&%#!” stuff, okay? But here is my reply to your reply:

    1) Holy Charles Bronson! Batman and Robin deposit criminals at the police department? A grown man and a boy in tights out late at night and hanging around the Police Department and you are concerning yourself with 4th Amendment Rights? Egads. Okay, here is probable cause: yuppie from affluent town pulls up on South Main at 2am and slowly takes in the scenery – PROBABLY looking for “coke”, PROBABLY looking for “sugar”, PROBABLY up to no good. How’s that for PROBABLE cause? Now, to be honest, if police come snooping around to arrest him, I’d be inclined to say they were “economic-profiling” and scream about 4th Amendment – but Guardian Angel with camera to snap license plate of Mr. Pleasant Valley Sunday? Now that is just brilliant (and legal!)

    2) Failures you ask? NPD “adjusted” patrols only after public outcry - NEVER proactive, only reactive. No finger on the pulse. Murders, gunshots, stabbings, muggings, burglary, home invasions, robbery, assault, not to mention lack of enforcement, such as speeding. If you don’t see any abnormal trends, I’d like to know how you are getting trends, because stats are top secret ‘cept what is reported to FBI (wink wink). I would also submit to you that if the amount of crime here is normal cyclical trend, then we have become desensitized to, and complacent about, the crime that is happening.

    3) NPD attending meetings to hear concerns and respond? Hardly – chief sent two surrogates to ENNA forum, would not attend Mr. Geake’s PWSH committee presentation by Curtis Sliwa. Response to issues is “lock your cars”. TG, you put your thoughts in the form of questions, instead of stated facts, and that is a no no: ie “have they not made arrests on most of the major crimes?” If YOU are privy to incident vs. arrest stats, do tell. This way your sentence might be “They have made arrests on 20 of the 38 violent crimes”, or something to that effect. The stats we were shown look like they get more massages than the “spa” customers in Norwalk! What is your point regarding solved and unsolved? Is it the perception that folks fear there are maniacs on the loose? That is valid, but more importantly is the fact the crime occurs in the first place, not just necessarily the conviction rate.

    4) Hey, no fair on #4. You can’t ask the same questions we are asking and expect US to answer them. Ask the NPD, and post answers here, pretty please.

    5) Yes, we want stats that are more current then the FBI time-delayed ticker, we want plot maps like tons of other communities have, and query capabilities to include/exclude data (like let’s include violent crime and exclude graffiti and GPS). And yes, we want the data for 2008. You especially should know just how simple a database inquiry this is, and surely the NPD is entering every call into a system (maybe E911 and dispatch are the raw data?). Did you look at the link I gave for simplistic reporting tool that Charlotte NC makes available to citizens? And did you notice that their crime data analysis is posted for each month, no later than the end of the following month? Every neighborhood association should be able to monitor and interpret police-related activity in their area, and use info as they see fit. Hypothetically, in case of Guardian Angels use of data to pick patrol areas, it does no good in June to see there was a sharp spike in burglaries in West Norwalk in December of last year! But if data is real time, perhaps can move patrols, alert residents, etc.

    6) Phew, at least on this one we agree. One would have thought (naïve me, of course) that moving NPD from ‘the parkland’ to ‘the badlands’ would have had a dramatic impact on reducing gang violence, shootings and stabbings, muggings, and yes, GPS thefts. But in the absence of before and after stats, one can only go by perception, and perception is gang violence is here and worse than ever, drug dealers are CEO’s of entrepreneurial network, residents in some parts of town are fearful to leave their homes at night, much less walk anywhere. We need police services in the community, visible, active, and on the street. But if building on Monroe is idea of community policing, news flash to NPD: go to plan B.

    7)Best practices in crime prevention may not mention GA specifically, but many mention civilian patrol organizations that are working WITH local law enforcement. The 2003 NY Attorney General’s Neighborhood Watch Awards of Excellence names GA specifically, and 5 other civilian-based patrol units, some uniformed and all in conjuction with local PD.
    http://www.oag.state.ny.us/crime/neighborhood_watch/conferences/2003/2003_awards.pdf

    3-6-08 Republican organization TR Group awards Sliwa Rough Rider Awards:
    WEST VILLAGE — Surrounded by guns hanging on the walls of an Italian rifle club, Brooklyn’s own Guardian Angel, Curtis Sliwa, accepted a couple of awards last week from local Republicans. Sliwa, born and raised in Canarsie, was given the Rough Rider award from The TR Group, a Manhattan-based Republican organization that derives its name from the initials of Theodore Roosevelt. Sliwa was further presented with a certificate of recognition from Brooklyn Congressman Vito J. Fossella, who is New York City’s highest-elected Republican

    Guardian Angel Curtis Sliwa Is A National Treasure
    By Gordon Bishop (05/22/03)

    “Curtis, a Brooklyn native, has been leading the charge on Homeland Security in America long before it became official after the terrorist attacks on the U.S. on 9/11.
    The Guardian Angels are now an international organization, with chapters throughout America and other countries.
    I personally had the honor and privilege as an author, historian and syndicated columnist of presenting Curtis Sliwa the first annual American Freedom Award at a Freedom Victory rally April 26 at Exit 109 of the Garden State Parkway, the borderline between Middletown and Red Bank. The award was from the Monmouth Courier, one of the largest regional weekly newspapers in New Jersey founded 49 years ago.
    It was the least the Courier could do for a leader of freedom who has been fighting crime and corruption since he was 25, when he founded the Guardian Angels.
    The Guardian Angels have been honored by New York City Mayor Rudy Giuillani, who declared Guardian Angels Day in the Big Apple on February 13, 1995 (the Angels were founded on February 13, 1979). The list of civic, business, educational, religious, military and government awards to Curtis and the Angels reads like a Who’s Who in the World of crime fighters and freedom fighters.”

    Interesting synopsis of book I’ve not yet read, but intend to:
    Bruce Benson “To Serve and Protect”
    1998 Published by The Independent Institute
    http://www.independent.org/publications/books/book_summary.asp?bookID=21

    Synopsis
    ” ‘Police have very little to do with crime when it comes down to it,” explains Tallahassee, Florida, Police Chief Tom Coe. “The community cannot put enough cops out there to protect everyone. You’ve got to empower the people to protect themselves.’
    Responding to that call, To Serve and Protect suggests policy changes to mobilize citizens and lead to effective and efficient justice for crime victims. Taking an historical perspective, the book both documents the failures of the criminal justice system and shows how they can be corrected.
    Ironically, despite its unparalleled importance as a policy issue, the public isn’t often treated to an in-depth analysis of the issues of crime and criminal justice. Instead, pundits and policy-makers have grown accustomed to giving pat answers and canned excuses, with those on the left stressing gun control measures and government rehabilitation programs as solutions, while those on the right advocate building more prisons, mandating more punishments and getting “tougher” on drugs.
    In this new book from The Independent Institute, Benson shows how both ends of the political spectrum get the issue wrong and neglect perhaps the core of the debate: the crucial role the private sector and local community institutions have played and must continue to play in controlling crime.”

  • 29 Ex Cop // Oct 4, 2008 at 9:34 am

    More highly visible eyes and ears on the street, would certainly be a deterrent to certain kinds of crime. We (taxpayers) will not support the manpower levels it would take to restore foot patrol and extend it into all the neighborhoods where there are problems. Volunteer (free) patrol manpower may be the answer. I understand why the chief and the mayor are opposed to the Guardian Angels, although there have been good results in some places. A group of volunteer local residents working directly with the police on a part time basis, a few hours a week, could work as police auxiliary on the busiest days and hours of the week. How many volunteers would be qualified and what would it cost ? Some communities put civilian patrols on the road in marked police cruisers, driven by senior citizens. Others put closed circuit TV cameras at trouble spots, monitored, much like private security systems in casinos, etc. One person can monitor a lot of cameras.
    Cops that find places to hide when they should be on patrol are also part of the problem. The City needs to better monitor patrol activity. The technology to know exactly where every patrol unit is at any time, moving or not, is readily available. Police supervisors need to be aware of who is working and who is not. Hiding instead of patrolling used to be called “cooping”. Cops working proactively, looking for criminal activity, are the best deterrent. New York City started a quality of life initiative, enforcing long neglected laws on minor crimes and had a dramtic effect on all kinds of crime. They caught an awful lot of wanted felony criminals doing minor crimes, including motor vehicle offenses.

  • 30 turfgrrl // Oct 4, 2008 at 10:09 am

    Diane C:
    1. Same bat time, same bat channel. That was my point, buried in the 4 color imagery, that one man’s red beret is another’s vigilante. But the fourth amendment stuff is real, the erosions thereof is real, and I’m just one of those people who value those constitutional protections. The GA and for that matter I feel the same way about neighborhood crime watch signs on public streets, operate under the premise of assumptions about the “criminality” of people. Yes that means I am okay with “reactive” policing, as in a crime has been committed then go solve/enforce it.

    2. And we stay with reactive here. Well, what’s wrong with adjusting patrols after incidents have prompted outcry? Are you suggesting that the NPD become mind readers and move to locations prior to crimes being committed? And those of us who have lived in Norwalk for awhile certainly have memories of what real crime in Norwalk was all about circa late 80’s/early 90’s.

    3. I read the same stuff you do. And there’s a steady stream of so-and-so arrested for reports to suggest that arrests are being made. Did I print out a report of open cases? Nope. I’m betting you didn’t either. And further that no one has asked for it. In writing, which is that magical governmental way of requesting information, seriously, from departments. So you tell me that anyone has actually requested in writing some crime stats, and received a response in writing denying the request, and I’ll take back what I said.

    4. Which brings us back to 3.

    5. Yeah, I know all about GIS data applications. It’s trivial from a technology standpoint, but you have to invest in the people/technology to make it happen. However, I dispute real time as a stand alone solution. I also think that the best practices from any neighborhood perspective can be deployed regardless of the stats. It’s the trends, which take time to develop and time to see that lead to better policing. Kinda gets back to root cause.

    6. Perception is not reality. Yes there is and will always be gangs of sorts, and crime. There is not a community in the world, well maybe Antarctica –oh wait, there was a murder there– that there isn’t crime. So yes, you look at if the crime reports are statistically up or down, and you can look back at the FBI crime stats and see for yourself that we are in a short uptick trend within the context of a steady downward trend. So we should see from an enforcement standpoint that patrols are shifted to areas where the crimes are opportunistic. I think that’s what happened.

    7. There’s a big difference between being aware and vigilante, ie. reducing crimes of opportunity, and sending out patrols of people.

  • 31 turfgrrl // Oct 4, 2008 at 10:11 am

    Ex Cop: Yep, enforcing the quality of life crimes goes a long way to reducing overall crime. It’s the broken window syndrome that we should all be working on.
  • 32 Diane C: touche' & time out // Oct 4, 2008 at 12:16 pm

    Ex-Cop - always practical and reality-based.. can’t you become FORMER ex-cop and go give NPD a hand? As fine a job as they may do, and ’tis a job no coward like I would ever do, surely they can use a little outside perspective and take constructive feedback & positive suggestions, no?

    TG - shall formulate debate response and return later with what I hope is a more succinct reply….man, even I think my responses and public testimony are way too long now! Off to either do more root cause analysis or get root canal, whichever is less painful…probably root canal..Be back later…….

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