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Transfer Station Hearing Thoughts


by turfgrrl


July 18th, 2008 · 12 Comments

Really, what is the point of holding a public hearing, when no one speaking at the hearing speaks to the facts of an issue? Why is it that unsubstantiated theories play any role in policy discussion? Last night’s public hearing on the transfer station solid waste contract issue was appalling.

To put in perspective the issue, solid waste disposal in Connecticut with CRRA has been a contentious issue because of the fees charged by CRRA and the lack of accountability. Every editorial about the issue in towns subject to the CRRA contract say the same thing. The gist, recently from a Hartford Courant editorial:

Relations between the quasi-public agency and its member towns have gotten pretty testy since 2001, when the agency gave Enron an illegal and unsecured loan of $220 million and the corporation promptly went bankrupt.

CRRA recovered from the investment by raising the fees it charges towns to dump their garbage. But the arrangement left municipalities smoldering.

The agency eventually recovered a large portion of its losses from Enron’s bankruptcy estate. But when the tipping fees didn’t go down, towns sued.

Courts have repeatedly upheld the towns’ claims that they should have been compensated with a reduction in their fees or a refund. But the CRRA still hangs onto the money and its appeal.

The conclusion that the Courant drew was that towns must shop around. And they did. Norwalk is not alone in seeking a new contractor. Nor is Norwalk alone in seeking to expand recycling. There’s money to be made in recycled waste, and that in the end lowers the rates charged for shipping out the garbage that can’t be recycled. There’s even a burgeoning market competition for buying garbage to fuel power generating plants.

Despite the drama of saving children from transfer station arguments, the city transfer facility on Crescent street is near a playground and children’s museum. Pollen and humidity have just as great an impact on asthma as do pollutants such as dust, and other contaminants, at least according to countless studies cited by the EPA. The science of causation of asthma is pretty clear, its an inherited disease much like most allergies. You can’t catch it from a passing garbage truck. The group, environmental justice simply propagates junk science in order to incite fears in low income populations.
The Common Council has the ultimate control over city operations. It has no control over private enterprise. Should the Common Council vote to continue solid waste disposal in its present state, they are essentially conceding that they are incapable of making improvements to the quality of life for all of Norwalk. While other cities and towns in Connecticut have chosen the path of greater accountability in solid waste disposal, we in Norwalk get political indecision.

Tags: Norwalk

12 Responses so far “Transfer Station Hearing Thoughts”



  • 1 Old Timer // Jul 18, 2008 at 9:36 am

    Maybe, if it was explained right the first time with costs, and traffic and environmental reports, and the supposed improvement in the quality of life for all of Norwalk, there wouldn’t be so much indecision. All the information needed to make an informed decision should have been presented honestly upfront and included in the council packets. It wasn’t, and the committee still can’t get straight answers. The council is doing exactly what they were elected to do. They are moving cautiously before voting to approve 10 year contracts for undisclosed amounts with unknown effects on the neighbors of making Meadow St a regional transfer station handling up to 1200 tons a day. They are, at least, listening to the neighbors.

  • 2 Hearing Impaired // Jul 18, 2008 at 9:58 am

    All the information has been presented for months to the Council DPW committee. They hired special expert counsel outside the law department and special environmental consultants. Perhaps the reason the Council and the public are so poorly informed is that the Democrat caucus has broken down and they argue but don’t inform each other of the actions in committee and many Council members are not even attending their own committee meetings. Then you have the issue of DPW committee being chaired by a failing 80 year old whose attention span and retention ability are fading fast. His meetings are poorly chaired and order has broken down. Further most of the staff will not deal openly with him because of his memory issues he claims things are said that are not and forgets what is actually said. More he stated at the last council meeting that it is his job not to trust Department heads. How can you chair a committee running the biggest department when you are as lost as that? We need some leaders and communicators on the Council to step up, but so far it is all pot shots and pandering. Bobby Burgess that paragon of public integrity is leading this? That is crazy. So we will spend more on garbage and get less services and less recycling, because no one in that 15 members Council knows how to lead. Ouch we are in trouble!

  • 3 Anonymous // Jul 18, 2008 at 10:18 am

    I see the tons of pollutants permitted by the state on 65 businesses including the power plant has hit a nerve in South Norwalk alone.

    Studies done on meadow st havn’t started by St Vincents Norwalk hospital didn’t even want to talk about it.

    yes the justice league has been in the city they were here last weekend door to door how conveniant opposition coming out of every crack in Norwalk how nice we have free speech and the ability to stem such an ugly tide.

    No one predicted a all out war but you have one now go with it.the more that is discounted the more information is given.before you know it the good ole boys club will be gone and with it whatever power they had left.

    My wife had cancer not allergies of course she has only lived here for 30 years but has been linked to the area not her genes they were tested and found nothing genetic so that left one thought didn’t it.

    If Norwalk isn’t alone maybe competition will bring the price down maybe even give us a better deal so we wait a year big deal we are throwing our money around Norwalk on other projects that never will see a return and it effects very few in the city.You want the short list on those?

    It was explained right the first time it was supppose to go over the heads of most and down the throats of others.Their way or the highway Moccia way or Moccia’s way take your pick we have what we have now deal with it.

    but first lets hear the facts from the experts,where Norwalk has very little in the way of experts but story tellers lets employ outside help.Lets see what Sacred Heart is doing this week and if they have some of Dicks stationary instead of the Rillings.

  • 4 Diane Cece // Jul 18, 2008 at 10:27 am

    Bravo, once again, Old Timer! That is exactly the point- I was NEVER opposed to the Meadow Street site, and still am not necessarily opposed. I am opposed to council presidents who admit that none of THEIR neighbors would EVER allow a dump in their backyard, to councilmen and women who make uninformed decisions, to department heads who feed information piece meal as it suits them, and who don’t make the requested information available in a timely manner. I kid you not when I tell you that Hal Alvord was still distributing requested information as recently as this past Monday nite! How on earth could anyone have voted on this issue last month?
    I don’t object to city improvements and thoughtful progress - I object to misinformation, lack of information, and censoring of information.
    I also ALWAYS object to the work of committees being performed on the floor of the chamber, although that in itself is a double-edged sword: we “gadflies” can’t possibly be expected to attend every committee monthly and special meeting, and thus usually end up with many important items discussed in private caucas and put on the pre-approved consent calendar, with us mere mortals never having had the benefit of hearing considerate debate and deliberation.

  • 5 Anonymous // Jul 18, 2008 at 10:33 am

    Put the meetings on TV dammit then we all can see whats happening what type of behavior most Norwalkers have voted in.Childish acts on tv would push them out of office asap.Most need dope slaps but then again it would be way too much to ask for to act civil wouldn’t it.

  • 6 Regular Person // Jul 18, 2008 at 11:38 am

    Now there’s an idea - if people are willing to watch the US Senate in “action”, they might be VERY willing to watch their own home councils go at it, and then have better ideas about who to vote for.

  • 7 Anonymous // Jul 18, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    I assure you, its painful enough in person without being able to hit replay! Unfortunately your choices are hindered by the political parties. They are the ones who decide to blackball or support and then you the voter gets the pan drippings in some cases.

  • 8 Mr Greenpeace // Jul 18, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    I agree #6 #7 thats why I just suggested TV it would show the city whats really going on.Kydes and Bondi would lose their ability to attack speakers that approach any council meeting.

    What do you suppose Curtis thought when Kydes exploded in a meeting with the Angels? he proabably felt sorry for the victims and the residents with that type of public official running a city this size.

  • 9 Old Timer // Jul 18, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    Hearing impaired. I attended recent DPW committee meetings and they still do not have straight answers to simple questions. That is partly why the committee this time sent two proposals to the full council. There are people on that committee who believe the City Carting deal will save money, but they don’t know what the lease will cost. Hal tap dances when there is a direct question he doesn’t want to answer, or doesn’t know how to answer. He won’t give them enough informastion so that they can put his numbers into a calculator and find the big savings. The real cost of the City Carting deal will probably not save as much as Hal claims. He claims the profits from better recycling and from the city taking C & D waste will offset the expense enough for the net result to be big savings. He may be right, and he may be wildly optimistic. There is no way to know without more information. Another privately owned transfer station is opening on Crescent St. Competing with all these transfer stations the City may not be able to make all the profits he is planning on.

    You should be ashamed to talk about the head of the DPW committee that way. You want somebody who doesn’t ask questions ?

  • 10 Diane Cece- the answer, my friend // Jul 19, 2008 at 8:43 am

    Old timer ( a voice of reason, you are):
    In addition to the excellent points above, you may recall from Hal’s presentations that City Carting will get to keep ALL the revenues from metal scrap, which will not be included in our C&D numbers - this $ amount could be astronomical given the current market for some metals. (Folks have had catalytic converters & copper gutters stolen, WTNH news reports copper and stormdrain cover thefts in Milford, and major US cities are all reporting a rise in manhole cover thefts!)
    Acording to Newsweek (5-19-08), “In 2001 scrap metal sold for $77 a ton. In 2004 it was $300 per ton, and today it’s nearly $500″.!
    Now, why doesn’t any of this income-producing waste processing & recycling figure in to OUR income or “cost avoidance”?. Just how much scrap & construction metal is being processed at Crescent and/or Meadow today? Does City Carting operate as a scrap metal processor? Will thieves be taking their loot to Meadow Street? By locking us in to a 10-year contract, how much will we lose if recyclable/scrap metals go up to over $2000 a ton?!! The list of questions just goes on and on, doesn’t it?

  • 11 Old Timer // Jul 19, 2008 at 9:18 pm

    scrap copper is listed at $3.69765 a pound or
    $7395 a ton, Today.
    Aluminum is listed at $1.3726 a pound or
    $2745 a ton, Today.

    Source:http://www.metalprices.com/

    These prices are based on large quantities and prices vary every day.

    Over ten years, that could add up.

  • 12 Diane Cece- big brass ones, or copper even // Jul 19, 2008 at 9:52 pm

    Old timer, wow! I saw the “spot” quotes as well, but thought my math must be wrong (I was absent that day).
    As the bard himself might say: something rotten in the city of Norwalk (and it ain’t just Meadow and the waste water treatment plant that stinks)As street urchin from Chickahominy might say: holy s_ _t.
    Yes, folks, time to revisit ye olde contract proposal.

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