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Secret Society On Open Government


by turfgrrl


June 28th, 2008 · 45 Comments

In the aftermath of the garbage contract–er what do I even call it– thingee, it was apparent that another mythical group, like Kharybdis, has seized the whirlpool of discontent and announced its existence to the world. The Norwalk Neighbors For Open Government is open for business, yet how one joins this “open” government group is at best a mystery.

Speaking of secrets, the BOE held an executive session meeting on Thursday night after a round of Corda Hold ‘Em. Various central office positions are to be combined and some teaching positions restored, which in the end is a deviation from the Corda gambit. Which led to the interesting move to hold a special meeting this coming Monday to vote on Corda’s annual one year extension and raise. Last year, the contract extension and raise was put through with nary a peep by a BOE member. This year lots of talk. And the early indications are that Dr. Corda will not be rubber stamped into a raise and contract extension. In the world of academia, this is an indicator of no confidence. Quite the switch from the well known docile acceptance of yore by certain board members.

Thursday night also was the planning committee of the Common Council’s meeting night. And here’s an indicator of why various Norwalk citizens complain, as in item 1 above, that they don’t know whatis going on. No press covered the meeting. And two items of import were discussed. 1) Seligoson properties presented the parking plan for Waypointe. TO refresh our collective memories, the parking plan is what is the revenue generator to pay back those infrastructure bonds. Details in other words, that most people would be interested in hearing. Then there’s 2) the plan to have the Redevelopment Agency negotiate with the remaining properties that have not yet been acquired by Seligson. You can’t report what you don’t know.

Meanwhile as word about the garbage contract and compalints about Meadow street percolate through the grapevine, residents beyond the handful of the perpetual misinformed, are pondering what the big deal about the issue is. Like for instance Crescent street is also in South Norwalk. When the issue is stripped bare to the facts, replacing a trash transfer operation with one that will be run and managed better, and offering a lower cost of operation and increased recycling seems like a good idea. Maybe people are paying attention to the spotless white City Carting trash trucks that zip around Norwalk already hauling away the rubbish from many homes and businesses. While certain council members want to hold yet another public hearing, others see this as a simple up or down vote.

The issue that residents near and on Meadow Street keep hammering is all about traffic. On a state road. Which makes it somewhat ironic that State Rep Bruce Morris is not out there working with his state legislature to get the DOT to plan for improving traffic route 136, a state road.  Instead he “coaches” from the council chamber audience, not exactly understanding that traffic on a state road is not the purview of the common council. In honor of our perpetually confused State Rep, an olden timey poem:

Tweedledum and Tweedledee
    Agreed to have a battle;
For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
    Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
    As black as a tar-barrel;
Which frightened both the heroes so,
    They quite forgot their quarrel.

Ah yes, its all fun and games until the monstrous crow sings. Or, in this case, the Masons rule book delivers the verdict, if you vote not to table an issue, it means you are voting to continue voting on the issue.

Tags: Norwalk

45 Responses so far “Secret Society On Open Government”


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  • 1 Anonymous // Jun 28, 2008 at 12:33 pm

    Buh, bye Sal!

  • 2 ANON // Jun 28, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    I know this isn’t the place here, but here is good as a place as any. YAY!!! GREGORY’S STORE IS OPENING UP AGAIN IN JULY!!!!!!!!!!!

  • 3 Anonymous // Jun 28, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    The safety of a state rd is an issue,trucks dropping junk car parts along the way destroying tires has been an ongoing issue.Illegal parking was an issue before 136 was looked at for thru trucks.Now battles in Norwalk are not taken on just by the one directly effected now its everyones fight that in itself has become apparrent by the network that has been created.

    Envoromental issues not having a voice leaves the residents in the area of Meadow st concerned.

    Never the issue of air water land or sound pollution comes up in any review and the coaches are sound environmentalists or activists who for the most part ruin plans that have been piss poorly designed.

    Not all issues on Meadow st have been addressed its obvious we don’t see anything to the end do we.

    If the Norwalk police starts enforcing the code on the trucks and its shown what everyone has been saying that there is a need for enforcement then others will see the prodding by the coaches have done is paying off.What is it that we want anyways safe streets,pollution free residential areas and quality of life .Fight for them and make who uncomfortable?

    No question the news media has let the city down if not for reporting the news we have one paper not reporting both sides that is an ongoing problem.

    The repore the press has with the city is poor at best and why is that?

    The information drought one speaks of is created by the administration just ask any news reporter or council person they are the last people in the city to find out whats going on maybe three councilmen will disagree but the rest of them will tell you there hasn’t been any dialougue from city hall informing them of anything that effects us residents for the most part over the last 3 years.

    Its ok read your news take all the people the mayor and his cronies dump on contact them by email and you have the new coaches coming onto the Norwalk scene. Over the last three years I guess you have a large crowd now on the job just like with the BOE threads its awesome to see so many networking now.To change years of bad politics and planning its going to still take more than three years to change things but its a start isn’t it?

    Norwalk does not belong to a handful,certaily that handful are not experts in any one area but yet we do have experts in the city that are shunned the moment they walk into a room what a shame insulting resouces that are free.Outside experts have been hired desired results have been delivered yet Norwak residents go without or are overlooked for a handful and not the masses.

    How does money taken by Klaffs for parking pay for Norwalks bills?

    Who pays for the damage a Laz employee caused with a Norwalk DPW vehicle from an accident this week?

    If they close the shellfish beds again and the beaches because of the sewage plant does any say they are sorry?

    from the knoll

  • 4 anonymous // Jun 28, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    Why doesn’t the hour report the real news going on in Norwalk? Why does the Stamford Advocate have the scoop?

    Let’s get some investigative reporters on the Hour’s team……

  • 5 anonymous // Jun 28, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    #3 I wish you would work on your posts and make them more to the point…it’s really hard to figure out what you are trying to say. Or maybe you are just way too deep for me.

    I wonder if more traffic on Meadow Street would have any affect on the daytime violence on Woodward. It’s horrible.

  • 6 Mjolnir // Jun 28, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    Intelligence is sexy, Corda is not sexy. We can’t make bad men good. His misrepresentation of good educators has caught up to him. Retaliatory and vengeful leaders have no place in education and have empowered the minds of those who study them-especially those who have been victimized by them.

  • 7 garbage in garbage out // Jun 28, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    Turfgirl
    Re Meadow st. Trash deal
    You imply that the complainers are ignorant and misinformed and that the intellectuals ( no doubt you include yourself as one)are fine with a
    Meadow Street Trash station.
    Perhaps it is your lack of knowledge that comforts
    you in your complacency.

    The big deal about meadow st. is :
    1. you will have 2 transfer stations in SONO
    2. obviously because of the doubling of transfer
    station capcity- you are talking about a lot out of town trucks driving through Norwalk to dump.
    3. Where is this mystery aggreement?
    4. from a moral point of view , is going back to
    burying your garbage in someone elses backyard and shipping across 3 states good for the environment ?
    5. there is no cost savings , just cost shifting
    someone will pay.
    6. How is it going to increase recycling ?
    how and by how much ? ’cause Hal says so ?
    7. And I imagine if you lived on Meadow St. or a surrounding road , it just may be a BIG DEAL

  • 8 Anonymous // Jun 28, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    The agreement was passed out by Hal and the council members were taken back all but Fred that is was sitting in front of them waiting for approval.

    Where is it and when do we get to read it for ourselves?

    Transparent it wasn’t.

    Continue to operate like this the city will get what it deserves new politicians.

  • 9 Anonymous // Jun 28, 2008 at 7:27 pm

    I know turffie and can vouch for her integrity on issues. I don’t always agree with her but I can’t say that she is ever uninformed. Unlike your post.

  • 10 Anonymous // Jun 28, 2008 at 8:35 pm

    why havn’t the planners told us more about the street to the transfer station is to be closed only one way in and one way out to cresent st will be available.Is this disgust shown by some that plans for the developer will be crimped.

    Imagine all that traffic going in and out of that residential area via Butler the 95 exit road will be gone soon to use .

    Oh what a surprise anothet secret maybe?

  • 11 old timer // Jun 28, 2008 at 9:32 pm

    Kharybdis was not a mythical group, anymore than Norwalk Neighbors for Open Government is. If you are interested in open government, as opposed to back room deals cloaked in mystery and presented as if something must be done right now. it is no mystery how to get involved. You might have to turn in your Hal Alvord fan club card.
    Kharybdis was a mythical monster in Greek mythology who lived under a large fig tree and swallowed large parts of the sea and then regurgitated, three times a day. All the intake and expulsion made his neighborhood a tough place for mariners as ships sometimes got swallowed. I don’t see the connection.
    The Meadow St/City Carting Co. deal might have merit, if it had been better presented, and the obvious questions answered. Maybe the Mayor should look for someone else to make important presentations. Somebody who would do the homework and be prepared before he or she started talking in public, not necessarily an engineer, just a competent communicator who doesn’t sound like a caricature of a used car salesman.
    By the way, how come City Carting does not hold a transfer station permit, in their name, anywhere in CT ? What are they hiding ?

  • 12 Anonymous // Jun 28, 2008 at 10:23 pm

    I enjoyed that Old Timer I indeed love it when I learn something thank you.

  • 13 turfgrrl // Jun 28, 2008 at 11:41 pm

    garbage in garbage out: I think I have a fairly good handle on the trash contract issue, and I count myself as a long time neighbour of meadow street. You entire post is wrong since you are obviously not aware of how many transfer stations are in SoNo, a big hint its currently more than 2. Anyone from out of town can pay a tipping fee and use any transfer station in town. And I’ve looked at the budget and can see, quite simply and plainly, what the line item for garbage is. If you want to believe otherwise, go ahead, but I prefer facts to misinformation.
  • 14 turfgrrl // Jun 29, 2008 at 12:14 am

    old timer: Actually, this mythical group likely is nothing more than what we call vaporware in the tech world. Just because someone says it exists doesn’t make it so. For instance, if it is a group, that meets, when was the last meeting, minutes, members?

    I’m all for open and transparent government, and I’d suggest to you that this blog has provided quite a bit of sunlight in Norwalk government.

    As for Kharybdis, I think the thrice daily regurgitation of sea water is entirely analogous. Circular arguments and whirlpools, both go round and round and round and where they go nobody knows.

  • 15 garbage in garbage out // Jun 29, 2008 at 9:41 am

    turfgrrl
    Yes I know there are 3
    However , as we are talking Solid Waste (garbage) in regard to the proposed contract the only one that is taking garbage is Cresent St.
    Currently Merrit St. and Meadow st. are permitted for C&D only and are privately owned .
    So yes anyone from out of town can dump at those to places BUT NOT GARBAGE.
    Cresent st. can and should be only for Norwalk Licensed Haulers. If out of town GARBAGE is dumped at Cresent St. it is because DPW allows it.
    Therefore My entire post is not wrong, YOU are wrong. With 40years experience in the business ,
    I would be happy to give you the entire history
    of GARBAGE in Norwalk and how we got to where we are today - Then you would be Informed .

  • 16 NewAnon // Jun 29, 2008 at 9:48 am

    Well, thank God Gregory’s is reopening! There HAD to be SOME good news in this town!

  • 17 garbage in garbage out // Jun 29, 2008 at 10:25 am

    PS - and yes I know what the line Item is for the garbage disposal costs.
    and the schools,
    police,
    Fire,
    sewer,
    etc.
    How about that , We have to pay to ship our garbage to someone elses town , Guess it should be free .
    We pay for the priviledge of not having an in town
    landfill or incinerator . “Bonum commune communitatis”.
    If cities and towns are supposed to break even or make a profit, then why not charge for ; police/fire calls, bill parents for school costs,
    yada yada

  • 18 anonymous // Jun 29, 2008 at 11:03 am

    Speaking of LAZ, does anyone know why they drive vans with Norwalk Parking Authority signs on the side, yet the license plate is from New Jersey? Seems like they are registering out od state to avoid paying taxes on the city where they earn their profits.

  • 19 Anonymous // Jun 29, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    the accident the other day was posted by one of the cab companies on that imaginary group that is trying to turn Norwalk around.The Laz employee with a Norwalk truck hit a cab.

    It just gets better doesn’t it?

  • 20 old timer // Jun 29, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    Is likely ? Sounds like you are guessing. Why didn’t you pick up one of their posters, call the number on it, and ask those questions ? I was at a meeting with a roomful of people who are not happy with back room secret deals presented as if instant approval was an emergency. You know a lot of them, many spoke at the council meeting. Nothing mythical about them.
    Only one transfer station is limited to 100 tons a day Construction and demolition waste. Meadow St is working on a long expired license, with DEP approval, that allows 250 tons of garbage from anywhere, and 250 tons of C & D.
    If Meadow St is such a great idea, why fall back to plan B so quickly ? The objections and questions are clear, are there insurmountable issues ? Meadow St can take 250 tons of grabage a day now, with or without the City as a customer. Part of what scared neighbors was the idea of changing the permit from 500 tons a day to 1200 and putting the permit, and the liability, in the name of the City. How many trucks would it take to bring that much in and take it all away, the same day ? How “likely” is it that amount would ever be transferred in one day ?

  • 21 Anonymous // Jun 29, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    they are fishing old timer guess its not possible for educated residents to start banding together and picking the next mayor.Only people who have anything to lose are the ones working the city convincing others they know whats best for Norwalk.

    How many trucks?

    Based on 70,000 lbs a truck it would be what 8 tractor trailers an hour leaving with trash for disposal.Trash is not suppose to be left overnight and Hal does know his figures he has spent all this time hiding them.

    I’m glad the report came out on fire suppression for that site having a fire station there is not a figure for water flow.I’m sure the fire dept has no problems with anyting after the last contract fiasco they could care less and the Volk fire station is compared to a old time outhouse.

    Of course if i sat on any board looking at this I could tell you what size the water main is going onto this site.I’m not an expert just someone who works sites like this all the time and has seen very little on information that is basic.

    The water main break up the street a few weeks ago told us that the section of the city that hold the oldest water mains are on Wilson and Meadow but then again the news reports could of been wrong.

    anyone?

  • 22 garbage in garbage out // Jun 29, 2008 at 9:19 pm

    Tractor and trailer weigh 20,000-30,000 lbs
    that leaves 50,000-60,000 lbs for trash as road limit is 80,000lbs
    so 25-30 tons outgoing per trailer .
    But you are forgetting the smaller incoming trucks
    which hold 15-17 tons max.
    Which of course means a lot of trucks.
    I do not believe Meadow st. can take solid waste , only c&d . I have never seen Solid waste-garbage dumped there.
    thats why DPW said they needed 6 months to get state permits .
    By reading between the lines you can figure out what they are trying to do.
    But the main question is ;
    Cresent st. has worked for the last 25 years
    why the need for a 2nd transfer station ?

  • 23 turfgrrl // Jun 29, 2008 at 11:02 pm

    garbage in garbage out: Try 4 and you are closer to the factual number. Garbage is garbage, some of it burnable, some of it not and some of it recyclable. Different facilities process each differently, but all have to dispose of everything somewhere and no one turns away paying loads. Thanks for your offer of “informing” but I tend to prefer my info from verifiable documented sources.
  • 24 Coochee Coochee // Jun 29, 2008 at 11:11 pm

    Coochee Coochee!

  • 25 turfgrrl // Jun 29, 2008 at 11:11 pm

    old timer: First you are making an allegation that there’s some back room secret deal, heh, well they must’ve made it on the grassy knoll or something. The bid process happened over 7 months ago, I guess you think that sealed bids are “backroom deals.”
    The reality is that Meadow street will process garbage as a a transfer station no matter whether the city uses them or not, so your incorrect permit numbers are red herrings.

    The only reason that a plan B is even on the table is likely due to lead time on build out of facilities and equipment requirements. Sort of the same type of issue that bogged down Stamford’s garbage switch last year, trucks and equipment weren’t ready before changes to pick up were made resulting in problems.

  • 26 Anonymous // Jun 29, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    Wasn’t the Mayor sorry for it looking like a secret deal? Dick himself said something to the Advocate on that very same line.wasn’t it Fenwick who wrote that article?

  • 27 old timer // Jun 30, 2008 at 8:28 am

    I made no such allegation. I said it was presented as if it was a secret back room deal that must be approved immediately. Hal was not prepared and did a bad job presenting. A lot of critical information was left out and not avilable in response to questions. No wonder it was tabled. He didn’t do much better the second or third times, either.
    I expect if you had done the presentation, you would have been much better prepared and, probably gotten the vote needed on the first try. It is not rocket science to expect certain questions and to have the answers, it is simple preparation.

  • 28 anon // Jun 30, 2008 at 10:10 am

    Interesting that The Hour editorial came out in support of the garbage contract….they read the blog from last week and print it..

  • 29 Cynical1 // Jun 30, 2008 at 10:16 am

    I would suggest that the “Norwalk Neighbors for Open Government” post some contact information on this site.

    Just stating that they are “no mystery”, or suggesting that people “pick up a poster” does not give those of us that believe in Open Government much confidence that the group does not have a partisan agenda.

  • 30 Anonymous // Jun 30, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    who cares if there is such a organization who would be worried if there was? We have a teflon administration wrapped with warriors been that way for a couple of years now.

    Maybe the Rell knows this group,everyone is trying to save their ass nowadays even her.Didn’t we just get a bone thrown to us in the form of a police grant from the state?

    How could any group make a change with a name like that anyway?

    Try Google if anything this site and thread will come up while looking for those imaginary people or try Norwalk Leprecons that might work.

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