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Norwalk: Draino Not Working, DPW Drainage Budget


by turfgrrl


March 20th, 2008 · 13 Comments

You just know that there had to be more to this exchange:

On Tuesday night, tax board members questioned Alvord about his draft 2008-09 operating budget. The public works director requested $17.3 million, including $200,000 to hire an outside firm to clean plugged pipes and culverts. The city’s finance director, Thomas S. Hamilton, has recommended $16.4 million — a 3.3-percent increase over current spending — including $100,000 for the pipe and culvert cleaning.

Hamilton was not alone in questioning why Alvord is again seeking money for pipe cleaning.
“When are the (blocked) pipes going to cleaned? My memory is that they were going to be cleaned last summer. Are you going to combine the $250,000 from two years ago with $250,000 from this fiscal year?” asked Fred Wilms, tax board chairman. My question is ‘Was everything cleaned last summer?’”

For each of the last two years, the tax board approved $250,000 to clear blocked pipes and drains.

Alvord, however, said bids received by the city exceeded the $500,000 available. The department rebid the project, excluding sediment disposal costs, and early last year received a favorable bid from McVac Environmental, according to Alvord.

Oh, where to start? Well let’s get back to that accountability. The DPW department reports to the public works committee of the common council. That is the committee that should be asking about why these bids, projects, vacuum trucks are like characters in an Ed Wood movie. Budget Zombies, never did, resurrecting year after year. The planning commission was certainly on top of this in the capital budget request, and then, Alvord claimed that the city uses “fantasy numbers” for budget purposes.

Tom Hamilton is not a fantasy number kinda guy. I bet he was a little more animated than the following report describes:

Hamilton doesn’t dispute that more work remains. He does questions whether dollars approved for the earlier projects have or ever will be spent for them.

“I would submit that if the problem of clogged drainage pipes on Olmstead Place was taken care of at some earlier time, it was not paid for out of either the FY 2006-07 or FY 2007-08 $250,000 appropriations, because those funds have not be spent yet,” wrote Hamilton in a response to an Olmstead Place resident and copied to Alvord and Mayor Richard A. Moccia.

And then we have this detail:

On the question of encumbered funding, Alvord described McVac as a “very responsible contractor” but “an abysmal invoicer” in getting its bills to the city in a timely fashion.

Alvord said cleaning blocked culverts and drainage pipes also requires equipment — one of two new vacuum trucks ordered for such purposes has arrived — and trained personnel to use that equipment.

Bardon said the new trucks can’t clear the largest blockages in Norwalk. One of the Boutan Street culverts, for instance, requires larger equipment, such as used by McVac, and will require annual cleaning. Lastly, the city will be stuck with cleaning culverts under the Metro-North Railroad tracks, according to Alvord.

“We learned painfully that (Department of Transportation) has no intention of ever cleaning those culverts,” Alvord said. “If we’re going to protect the residents of the city from flooding … we’re just going to have to accept that we’re going to have to do the work ourselves.”

Asked how much he will ask for pipe and culvert cleaning in future operating budgets, Alvord estimated $50,000 for the culverts on Boutan and Fitch streets alone.

“At least for those two, we should have some small amount of money in each operating budget to clear those culverts,” Alvord said Wednesday. “I’m thinking less than $50,000. Now that’s just a guess.”

This ground was covered in many meetings since March 21, 2007:

Tom Hamilton: Storm drainainge 02-03 capital allocation still available.

Mayor: Is that committed to a specific project or is it available?

Wilms: $279k still available, can youproviode a list of storm drains you plan to clear? And for the next year as well?

Alvord: Yes, but Tigh and Bond ecumberance money won’t be available. (5258 object code)

Wilms: 9 moths completed and you are spending the $350k in the last 3 months. Are you going to wait like you did this time?

Alvord: Assuming a good bid, they can do a change order on the exitsing contract, with council approval, can be done in a month.

Wilms: Trucks on order; 1 or 2?

Alvord: Just took delivery on one truck last week.

Wims: What will trucks be doing?

Alvord: The pipe clearing contract is to clear blockages from pipes. That’s equipment that the city doesn’t have, and won’t have. The vacuum trucks will provide us with the capability to clean catch basins and man holes and space between catch basins and man holes. Routine sedimentation that you have year to year. City will have the ability to maintain the system once the blockages and collapes are fixed. Contractors are not cleaning out catch basins. City needs 4 trucks, 3 are 15 years old. At any given time they one is broken. You run out of places to weld, debris tank is the issue, high wear here. In September other truck coming in.

Mayor: So if they are that bad, why not ask for 4

Alvord: We have one, one is coming so we need 2.

So, the big question for me at least, is why this stuff is back again, one year later? Is the public works committee just interested in rubber stamping budget requests, or do they have any intention of actually committing to some form of oversight?

As for Alvord. He’s a quintessential civil engineer. Listening to him explain why you can’t do something is like watching an episode of M*A*S*H*,  or any army centric movie. Afterall, we all know where SNAFU came from.

source: The Hour, Alvord seeks $200,000 for plugged drainage pipes by Robert Koch, March 20, 2008

Tags: Norwalk

13 Responses so far “Norwalk: Draino Not Working, DPW Drainage Budget”



  • 1 Anonymous // Mar 20, 2008 at 10:47 am

    Part of the problem is the enginering/planning all takes time and money. Alvord asks for money and only begins the planning/engineering after he has the money in hand. By the time all the engineering/planning is done, we are in a new budget cycle and most of the money from last year is still not spent. Usually it turns out the project will take longer and cost a lot more then they guessed in the first place. He asks for more, figuring he can use last years money plus what he gets this year. A lot of projects are capital jobs, not maintenance, and should be budgeted over a much longer than one year cycle. Fixing the storm drain problems will take years and we should plan on it. Alvord is trying to fix the results of poor planning and many years of neglect. He hasn’t promised that the money he asked for now will solve all the stormwater problems, just pay for some of the work needed. He will be back next year for more. Someday they may even find a way to keep stormwater out of the sewer plant.

  • 2 Anonymous // Mar 20, 2008 at 10:51 am

    Just curious has anyone ever worked a vac truck and cleaned the bag house on one?

    I’m not asking to be funny , its not hard if your an equipment operator but has anyone ever been on a flex hose picking up bricks with one?

    Has anyone ever been in a live manhole for an electric company and had to use your boot to funnel debris up the pipe? While your inch and half or booster hose is kicking up the debris on the bottom of course.

    Just curious what they mean by special equipment,Macvac brings a water tank usually you just lay a hose line from a hydrant.

    I’m not sure what the problem is but the next time you see another vac company go down to the power plant to do the ash ask them for an estimate and find out why our trucks can’t do it.

    Sorry folks but vac trucks are not the problem nor are the age of them its starting to get old listening to the reasons why they need outside help and why it costs so much to dispose of I think the city is being jerked around by the DPW,

    If you need to tighten the debris (MUD) with calcium it costs money but if you dewater it at the plant and use the premise of 70,000 pounds per trailor you should have some ball park figure of what disposal is a truck load . Lets start with what a truck load cost to dispose of. That would be a good question.

    To use calcium you simple use a bulk tractor trailor with a compressor feeding the calcium from the trailor to a dumpster thru a 6 inch flexible hose onto wet material. Then you take a backhoe and mix it in so it becomes dry ready for transport but the trailor has to have a poly line mil thick plastic works but the rear of the trailor can’t have the small doors that open by handle in most states for transporation it has to be a solid door with a seal.

    Now if the material is contaminated with errant runnoff chemicals from brownfeilds this may tell us why its costing so much for disposal other wise the debris should be fine to simply landfill.

    regular dirt and debris is short money compared to a dirty dirt load of contaminants.

    Hazardous debris coming out of a manhole takes employees with haz mat training is that what Norwalk has? prevailing hazmat wage is not what we pay DPW workers if that is the case. It takes special equipment for anyone to enter a mnahole does norwalk have O2 meters and the training to enter Encapsulated Spaces?

    It seems like Mr Hamilton is a nice guy and is looking out for us the taxpayer but has he ever worked a vac truck? He probably hasn’t but for good reason but could he get someone who knows the business to help him ask the questions he sounds like the only guy in the city who can ask questions and get answers from Hal.

    I have to admit if your arm goes up that suction tube its able to break ever blood vessel in your arm and render you useless for life kidding aside these truck can kill you if your accident prone I know I over the years has seen just that happen it sucks when someone gets hurt, so I don’t blame the DPW guys for not wanting to risk that kind of iinjury but hwy not tell us all about the vac truck and why an outside company who specialize in vac trucks is a good choice.

    too bad we didn’t have people in Norwalk versed with hazardous waste that could translate in some of these meeting.

  • 3 Anonymous // Mar 20, 2008 at 11:26 am

    #2 sounds like he has experience with vac trucks. Alvord makes it sound like vac trucks clean catch basins, but cannot clean blocked storm drain pipes or culverts and special equipment is required to dig out all the debris. Looking on the internet, there are companies with very large roto-rooter type equipment that clean large pipe, like storm drain or sewer mains. The vac trucks, with a regular schedule for cleaning catch basins, are necessary, but will not clean the pipes. Without vac trucks and a schedule, the pipes will continue to build up debris.

  • 4 Anonymous // Mar 20, 2008 at 11:55 am

    your right on the special high pressure water machine its a water blaster, it can actually cut wood with a water jet , still you could use our trucks to vacume the water and debris and dispose of it.Why they didn’t say water blasters is what they actually hire out for then is beyond me. Again so many red herrings for one job no wonder they have the board confused. Why not just spell it out and say what they need help for.

    They have the equipment to see into the pipe by optics its not like we don’t have most of the equipment on hand to do most of the job ourselves.

    Yes we need some outside help but save some money do some of the work ourselves

    The water has so much pressure that it pulls itself into the pipe leaving a stream of mud and debris flowing out of the pipe behind its path its a great machine .

    your right #3

    but I wonder if they looked at one pipe and figured they are all the same.

  • 5 Anonymous // Mar 20, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    Would it make sense (save money) for the City to buy a water blaster and do the work with City employees, rather then hire outside contractors..? Does the city have the equipment to inspect the pipe from the inside or do they hire outside contractors for that, too.

  • 6 Anonymous // Mar 20, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    they have the optics here at the dpw they show it to us every year at open house its in a truck that has city of norwalk on it.

    Its a fiber optic camera on a remote control wheeled little cart that drives itself into pipe with lights

    yes sounds like buying one may be the ticket we have everything else I have seen it open house at the dpw two years in a row

  • 7 anono // Mar 20, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    I believe that Alvord is correct. You cannot set up the necessary preventative maintenance program until you have corrected the MASSIVE backlog of plugged storm drains. We are still not budgeting sufficient funds to clear the backlog and have only started to fund any real preventative maintenance program. We continue to underfund the infrastructure of the city while we continue to overfund the Board of Education. If any one bothered to look at Hamilton’s budget schedules, he cut a $150 million Education budget by $600,000 and a $17.6 million dollar DPW budget by $900,000. He approved an additional 12 added personnel in Education (with declining enrollment)for a total addition of 76 since 2005-6, while DPW has been permitted NO additional personnel since 2005-6. Does anyone wonder why every city department head (other than police and fire) already knows when they submit their budget that there going to get NOTHING beyond their contractual wage increases or the “crumbs” some of the BET members throw their way. The taxpayers of this city were pleased when Moccia took Corda on last year and that is why he won the election by 2500 votes. This year Moccia didn’t want to fight the taxpayers fight, he wanted to make nice to the “wasteful spenders” and their union friends. We must remember at the next election.

  • 8 Anonymous // Mar 20, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    Can’t we use the money set aside for connecting the city, connecting it by storm drain first?

    Was this suppose to be a priority?

  • 9 Anonymous // Mar 21, 2008 at 6:05 pm

    Alvord,Bardon,are the Problem at the DPW. # 5 the City has all the Vactor Trucks and water blasters they need we seen them at the Open house.But alvord will waste money on outside Contractors.

  • 10 Anonymous // Mar 21, 2008 at 8:19 pm

    you can tell everyone has had it, no one is suggesting compromise or financial avenues anymore seems like most simply want people in power to pack it up and go home.

  • 11 Diane Cece- watching the Peter Principle in action // Mar 22, 2008 at 2:01 pm

    It’s always been clear to this mere mortal that the flooding situation we’re faced with now is entirely due to neglect and incompetence. Yet the educated, the holier-than-thou, the wizard and the king of SNAFU (Spahr, Knopp, Moccia, and Alvord) would rather deny any responsibility or take any real action. Spahr hides behind his “the state statutes don’t require us to build and maintain adequate drainage systems, and you can’t make us” where you can almost hear a 3 year old saying “na na, na na na”. Actually, the State DEP requires us to comply with our MS-4 storm water permit by performing routine maintenance, but Hal will tell you himself that he has been in non-compliance from day one. Maybe you should worry about that, Mr. Spahr. Knopp was said to have been “hands on”, but neither he nor “hands off” Moccia have ever held Hal accountable. The wizard doesn’t grant an audience unless you bring him the broom of the wicked witch of the East (East Norwalk, that is.) As to Hal, it has nothing to do with his manpower or equipment, or lack thereof. Even if on any given day he has a percentage of his workers that Hal calls “the lame, sick, or stupid”, that still has nothing to do with the prioritization and oversight of their work. It actually has nothing to do with the old equipment that our DPW let deteriorate so badly we now must replace them with new vacuum trucks. That is b__sh_t. It’s time for this city to wake up and rid ourselves of “the lame, sick and stupid”, and I assure you, it is no Local 2405 DPW employee -the problem is at the top, where it is always found. Alternatively, you can give Hal some more Tonka toy trucks and give him the manpower needed to operate them, and some parts to repair them, and lots of gas, oil and other goodies to maintain them. But don’t act surprised when he comes back in 5 years for new trucks because the new ones we give him lay rotting under his command. As to the city performing the routine and major pipe clearing work, Hal’s track record isn’t too hot is it? I would submit to Mr. Hamilton that had the $250k in the 06/07 budget been used appropriately and immediately, that my own house would not have flooded again in August of 2006. Cutting the budget to “punish” or hold Hal accountable will only hurt the flood victims. For once and for all, sub out the work and don’t add any more employees to our payroll base with benefits & retirement packages and don’t add any more expensive trucks to rot away again. Many who rise to the level of their own incompetence simply laugh all the way to the bank each week. Hal must laugh all the way home to Danbury each night.

  • 12 Anonymous // Mar 28, 2008 at 12:46 am

    01-3055-5266 (Buildings) 01-4072-5244 (Natural Gas) $ 58,309
    This transfer will be used to cover a current deficit of ($20,809) in the account and the projected cost of $37,500 up to June 30, 2007. The natural gas meter at this location produced erroneous readings for the past two fiscal years. As a result, the Fiscal YeF 2006-07 allocation for this line was understated. Yankee Gas replaced the meter in November 2006, and a recent bill received in March 2007 appears to reflect actual usage. This transfer should be adequate to cover the cost of the utility for the remainder of the fiscal year.

    was this ever disposed of as being old business?

  • 13 Anonymous // Mar 28, 2008 at 12:48 am

    #12 was may of 2007 for the DPW

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