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Norwalk: Vets Park Vs. Central Park


by turfgrrl


September 18th, 2007 · 19 Comments

A good letter to the Hour by Arthur Santella:

This is in response to Michael Mushak’s letter of Aug. 28, titled “Citizens entitled to more facilities at Vets Park,” and a previous letter of May 2007 telling us how much Norwalk needed a miniature golf course in Veterans Park. When Mayor Moccia reviewed the proposal and the plans, he decided it was not suited to be in the park. That should have given Mr. Mushak some clue as to how unpopular and out of place this proposal was.

Mr. Mushak, a landscape architect, portrays Veterans Park area residents as affluent landowners — recent purchasers of expensive real estate. He seems to have selective amnesia or does not even know or care about the fact that it was not always a park. It was a gar-bage dump, a wetland, and later, when it was filled with 10 feet of mud to make the park, we had the stench and the view of acres of rotting mud along with the problem of fighting off hundreds of displaced rats for years.

The next thing the residents had to put up with were problems with vandalism, drag racing, drug dealing, and drunks skidding out of the park at all hours, smashing into our cars and property located on Seaview Avenue. It was only after years of complaints from neighborhood residents that this problem was finally eliminated by the administration in office at the time and carried forward by the present administration. This was done by ordering increased police patrols, enforcement, and closing the park at night.

Regarding Mr. Mushak’s reference to manicured lawns and mansions with picture windows, my home was built by hand by my father and grandfather in 1947, which is a far cry from the mansion that Mr. Mushak suggests it is. The homes you see around Vets Park, like in any area of Norwalk, are a direct result of the hard work and pride that the residents have for them. Vets Park area residents, like all Norwalk homeowners, perform renovations as they can afford them. In many cases, the work is done by the homeowners themselves on the little time they have outside of their demanding jobs as is most of the landscaping. Certainly there is no one that I know that can afford the services of a landscape architect.

In his letter of Aug. 28, Mr. Mushak attempts to divide Norwalk into affluent Vets Park area residents and everyone else. These divisive comments could not be further from the truth.

I am a retired Norwalk firefighter living on a fixed income. For more than four decades I have been one of the decent, hard-working Norwalkers that Mr. Mushak refers to — one who often had to work three jobs to make ends meet. The Vets Park area neighbors I know are all trying to make ends meet as well. No one I know of from this neighborhood is hobnobbing around with Warren E. Buffett, Malcolm Forbes or the Hiltons. In this and a previous letter, Mr. Mushak makes references to New York City’s Central Park in an attempt to compare it to Vets Park in Norwalk.

Let’s examine the facts about his claim that the two parks have a lot in common.

* Veterans Park is 33 acres and Central Park is 843 acres

* Veterans Park has one or two police officers on patrol and Central Park has its own 500-man police precinct.

* You can see from one side of Veterans Park to the other. Central Park is larger than two of the world’s smallest nations. It is almost twice as large as Monaco and nearly eight times as large as Vatican City.

* Veterans Park is surrounded on three sides by open water. Central Park is landlocked.

* Veterans Park is surrounded by Norwalk’s population of 86,000 people; Central Park is surrounded by a city of 8.5 million.

Mr. Mushak makes this type of comparison to support his claim that it is necessary to hand over public-owned park land to private enterprise to hold down tax increases. A combination of simple math and open eyes would easily lead one to the conclusion that this is not necessary in Norwalk.

Norwalk’s Recreation and Parks budget is a relatively small 1.4 percent of Norwalk’s overall annual operating budget. If anything, Recreation and Parks has slightly declined relative to Norwalk’s overall operating budget over the past three budget years as compared to 2001-2004. Anyone who frequents Norwalk’s parks (including Calf Pasture Beach) can plainly see that the Recreation and Parks Department has greatly improved facilities and expanded programs and activities while taking up a smaller share of Norwalk’s overall budget.

If Mr. Mushak has such concern for Norwalk, I challenge him to use his time to keep a closer watch on such things as the Gault Tank Farm proposed for his area of town and for increased truck traffic in his own neighborhood from the new Route 136 truck ban.

Norwalk is not only a lifelong home to me and my wife but also to my children, grandchildren and many family and friends. Can he say the same holds true for him? I have a history dating back to the early 1960s of publicly expressing concerns and ideas on issues of interest to all Norwalkers — not just a single issue.

If Mr. Mushak spent more time in Norwalk’s Vets Park area, he would clearly see that the marvelous diversity in the people who live, work and play here is a true representation of all of Norwalk’s citizens. Please stop trying to draw an artificial line whose end goal would be to enrich the wallets of private business owners and landscape architects.

Arthur A. Santella is a resident of Norwalk.

Tags: In the News · Norwalk

19 Responses so far “Norwalk: Vets Park Vs. Central Park”



  • 1 #13 of the Miserable 25 // Sep 18, 2007 at 9:19 am

    We have so many new pressing problems in Norwalk that can be solved by the people working together with the administration and making their voices heard. It is sad that some folks just refuse to move on to new problems that threaten the quality of life of Norwalk Residents in all parts of our city.

    To insinuate that someone who was present at zoning meetings to try to lend support to people in other areas of the City, makes him a bad person, is outrageous. Mr. Mushak’s business is the one who may have stood to make money off the landscaping of the Miniture Golf debalcle, not anyone else.

  • 2 Mr Greenpeace // Sep 18, 2007 at 9:19 am

    I agree with most of what Aurther said , but being accosted last night in the area of the park by drug dealers and the homeless man being beaten the other night on the other side of the bridge tells me the crime and the safety will be an on going issue.”The most inhuman things I have ever seen short of children being involved” was from a decorated officer from Norwalk..Where has Dick been since sat when the incident happened? be nice if we heard from him and not a day late dollar shot from the news papers.

    now that the mayor has taken care of the mini golf course issue so well, maybe he can go on to public safety and address both the fire and police issues that continue to sit on the table.I trust its on his plate….

    We need more manpower to man a new heavy fire rescue being delivered to the city soon and the police could use Arthur pointed out maybe half of what Central park has for a precint so we could use another 100 men to add to our totals.

    100,000 to 120,000 residents in the city of Norwalk is what all officials are using on the grant applications and the EPA and the state are using the same figures so we have grown over 25,000 to 50,000 residents overnight.

    I do thou agree with everything else Aurtur is saying but to endorse the mayor for a pi-s poor job to date considering all the other issues he has miserable failed at makes me wonder if those who think the same way will give credence to his entire well written fact finding statement that Aurther wrote.

    Mentioning Dick in the end would of made me feel like city hall makes us all feel in the city a after thought not being the main focus on the issues.

    Take nothing away from the statement I agree with the main body of the facts and issues this man Mushak is lost but he is standing next to other elected and appointed officials while they are running the city..not all officials are in this group..

    maybe Aurther would run for something I’d vote for him he is a former jake and certainly has the interest on Norwalk making the residents and our resources a priority.

    could he help with the farmers market I’d owe him one I liked that location and vendors..

  • 3 Martin Shepard // Sep 18, 2007 at 9:44 am

    There was an article in the Hour this morning that mentioned how large the number of Yachts and boaters in the Norwalk Harbor is growing. The growing nautical presence of the Norwalk Harbor and its beautiful shoreline, islands, and seafaring history is making it among some of the most visited harbors in Connecticut. Can you imagine pulling your boat into Norwalk Harbor, and the first thing that hits you in the face to visit the area, and the first thing that would have hit you in the face, would have been a 1 acre miniature golf course, with its music, spot lights and mountains and other buildings that turned Veterans Park into a carnival like atmosphere. Thank heaven that sanity ruled over a park that is the gem of this city’s waterfront presence.

  • 4 Anonymous // Sep 18, 2007 at 11:30 am

    the people didn’t want it sanity has nothing to do with it,

  • 5 #13 of the Miserable 25 // Sep 18, 2007 at 2:34 pm

    True, but there were sure as heck a few politicians who were “Hell bent on leather” to try and get this past us. The “people” be damned.

  • 6 anonymous // Sep 18, 2007 at 2:38 pm

    There needs to be a master plan developed for Vet’s Park, with input from all citizens, including the SaveVetsPark group, the OysterFest organizers, the Columbian Festival Organizers and all other groups that use or live near the park. Environmental testing should be done asap, since many of you claim it is a toxic waste dump where our children often play in games several times a week.

    The master plan (and the debate) should focus on issues, not on personal attacks or made-up “facts”.

  • 7 #13 of the Miserable 25 // Sep 18, 2007 at 5:10 pm

    There is a meeting of the P & R tomorrow evening. They are discussing re newing the permits for at least one festival and a few other items related to Vets Park. Including a public hearing down the road on Vets Park. I think I found this on the ENNA website.

    RECREATION, PARKS & CULTURAL AFFAIRS COUNCIL COMMITTEE
    CITY HALL – ROOM 333
    WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 2007
    8:00 PM
    I Roll Call
    II Minutes of July 18, 2007

    III Old Business
    IV New Business
    1. Approve the use of the Pavilion and immediate surrounding grounds by Joycia Shular for a family reunion, to be held on Saturday, June 28, 2008 from 8:00 AM – 5:00 PM. Estimated attendance 200.
    2. Authorize the Mayor, Richard A. Moccia to enter into an agreement with The March of Dimes for a “March for Babies” to be held at Calf Pasture Beach on Sunday, April 27, 2008 from 6:00 AM – 4:00 PM. Estimated attendance 1,500 – 2,200.
    3. Approve the use of the Wolfpit School Parking area and grounds by the Wolfpit PTO for their annual Pumpkin Festival to be held on Saturday, October 13, 2007 from 10:00 AM – 4:00 PM. Estimated attendance 100 – 150.
    4. A. Authorize the Mayor, Richard A. Moccia to enter into agreement with the United Haitian American Society for the 6th Annual CT Haitian-American Day Celebration to be held at Veteran’s Park on Saturday, July 19, 2008 fro 10:00 AM – 9:00 PM. Estimated attendance 3,000.
    B. Approve the use of the Show Mobile by the United Haitian American Society for the 6th Annual CT Haitian-American Day Celebration to be held on Saturday, July 19, 2008 at Veteran’s Park.
    5. Authorize the Mayor, Richard A. Moccia to amend the Industrial Business Group, LLC d/b/a Dalton Contracting Company’s contract for tennis court refurbishment to include tennis court refurbishment at Woodward Avenue Park for a total not to exceed $20, 500.00. Account #09086030-5777-C0321.
    6. Authorize the Mayor, Richard A. Moccia to execute a license agreement with SoNo Equities, LLC to provide the property owner vehicle access for loading on a portion of 50 Washington Street Plaza. Length of license agreement 5 years, property owner responsible to provide landscape improvements required by the Department of Recreation and Parks Department.
    7. A. Authorize the Purchasing Agent to issue a purchase order to M.E. O’Brien & Sons Inc. for the supplies and installation of Playground Equipment at Fox Run Elementary School for the sum not to exceed $83,247.00 . Account #09086030-5777-C0364.
    B. Authorize the Purchasing Agent to issue orders on contract to M.E. O’Brien & Sons Inc. for the supplies and installation of Playground Equipment for a sum not to exceed $8,000.00. Account #09086030-5777-C0364.
    8. Authorize the Mayor, Richard A. Moccia to enter into an agreement with DMG and Associates, LLC for the use of Veterans Park for the “2008 Norwalk Jazz Festival” to be held on Saturday, July 12, 2008 from 11:00 AM – 9:30 PM. Set up to begin on Thursday, July 10, 2008 at 12:00 Noon with tear down no later than 12:00 Noon on Monday, July 14, 2008. Estimated attendance 5,000+.
    9. A. Refer recommendations to the Planning Commission in accordance with State Statute section 8-24.
    B. Review and recommend the following to the Common Council. Authorize the Mayor, Richard A. Moccia to execute and sign documents to grant an easement to South Norwalk Electric and Water for the purposes of an Electric & Water line through Heritage Park under the existing Walking Trail.
    10. Approve a maintenance plan of the Oyster Shell Park Tributary Bank by Save the Sound.
    11. Approve the Department to do a test archeological dig on the Grounds of Cranbury Park for the Old Dr. Smith’s sanitarium to be supervised by Holly Cuzzone a volunteer with expertise in historical archaeological recovery.
    V. Discussion
    1. Fodor Farm
    2. Schedule Public Park planning session for Veteran’s Park.

    Anything there that “rings your bell” be there.

  • 8 #13 of the Miserable 25 // Sep 18, 2007 at 5:12 pm

    Hey Turfy, If I instead saw that posted on your blog, I am sorry for the mistake.

  • 9 mike mushak // Sep 18, 2007 at 6:36 pm

    My apologies to everyone. I should have known becoming a parks advocate would be a thankless job in this city, like historic preservation or trying to get the schools fixed. Lets wait for the real park experts to tell us that 25 people in Veterans Park on a beautiful Sunday is normal, and I’ll listen. Let the real park experts tell us that everyone should get in their car and clog Gregory Blvd. and surrounding neighborhoods in East Norwalk on their way to Calf Pasture, because there is nothing to do in Veterans Park except play soccer or sit in your car, and I’ll keep quiet. Let the people in the luxury condos (not you Mr. Santella, who I deeply apologize to and regret lumping you with the others) with the harbor-top swimming pool (yes it is actually over the water-imagine that!), lecture us about the sanctity of the environment while they sit on their monstrous football-field length deck that creates a cavernous dead space along 300 feet of tidal waterfront, and I will try to contain myself. Let me hear the park experts tell us that thousands of Norwalkers should just go eat cake, or sit at home and watch TV, because SOME of the fine folks who live on Veterans Park don’t want to be bothered by people in the park. Let the park experts survey the people of Vantage Point condos and tell us how many of them actually use Vets Park, when they are not swimming in their harbor-top pool or taking rides on their yachts, and I will listen. Let the park experts show us miniature golf courses that can be designed to be natural environments, with no runoff, native plants, and plantings that draw birds and insects, and I will listen. I don’t want to design it, or plant the plants, or whatever. I just thought, on a whim of course because what do I know, it would be nice to have a family attraction in Veterans Park. Or is that such an off-the-wall concept that I am the only one capable of seeing it? I wonder where the parks advocates are in this city who don’t live on Seaview Avenue? Maybe they just don’t care. Maybe they realize that to stand up for people who seem to really not matter in this town, the over-taxed, over-worked, and park-starved working poor and middle class, is just a losing battle that gets you nowhere except ridiculed and personally attacked. Maybe I should just accept that I live in a city which has enough vocal residents who will fight tooth and nail to keep the “wrong” people out of its own parks, sad as that concept is.

    Let me at least set the record straight, as far as my motives for sticking my neck out to get more facilities so more more people could get out and enjoy our parks. I never have, nor ever planned on profiting from any landscaping work for the city. In fact, for 8 years now I have been donating my time, trucks, crews, and money to neighborhood clean-ups, restoring the crumbling and vandalized historic cemeteries, planting and maintaining adopt-a-spots (with no self-serving advertising mind you), removing graffiti, etc., with no interest on a return except the satisfaction of helping out and improving the city. I have plenty of work, in fact, I have to turn work down, without needing to take on the city as a client, especially considering the red tape involved. I could have bought my own yacht by now with the money I have poured into this city, doing things the city should have been doing itself with my sky-high property tax. Oh, let me admit that in all those years I did get paid for one load of gravel last year that I used at Pine Island Cemetery, when the city didn’t follow through on its delivery for my volunteered crew to use in righting fallen stones. I have the receipt (from Gault, sorry to say!), and it will show no mark-up. I donated about $3,000 of my own crew’s time and equipment that day, and another couple of days at Mill Hill cemetery doing things the city has long neglected, like trimming hedges and restoring stones. I also paid out of my own pocket for the plantings, wildflower meadow, and restoration of the Welcome to Norwalk sign at exit 14 (at a cost I am too embarrassed to admit), and the ongoing maintenance of this important entry to the city, with no advertising benefit to my business. Call me every name in the book if you must, but saying I am profiting from my support for the city after what I have donated, and what I will continue to donate as my civic duty, is not an accusation I will stand for.

    When it comes to the parks, I just thought that my early career back in the 80’s working for multi-national architecture and engineering firms (HOK for one, look it up) designing master plans for parks, both old and new, would give me some insight into the possibilities for Veterans Park. I hated desk work, and that’s how I ended up in work boots and on-site doing residential design-build, which I love, but I am still a licensed landscape architect in 3 states with a long list of mostly satisfied clients. But let’s wait for the real park experts to tell us how healthy and vibrant the existing Vets Park is, and I’ll be satisfied.

    As far as my comparisons to Central Park, I never said Vets Park was Central Park. I simply said that private concessions that generate revenue for the city have been established there for 150 years, without destroying the park. These include rowboat rentals, fishing pole rentals, the music carousel,ice-skating rinks, and numerous hot dog stands and a couple of restaurants. Central Park practically pays for itself, and is in pretty good shape after 2 decades of renovation at relatively little cost to the city. I worked on the restoration of the Shakespeare Garden for 6 months in 1988, planting 151 varieties of plants mentioned in Shakespeare, using a one million dollar gift from a wealthy real estate family, whose name is chiselled on a little rock at the entrance. To say I thought Vets Park should have the facilities of Central Park is misinterpreting what I said. Just that the anger over the dreaded commercialization of Vets Park is misplaced when it is a long-proven formula, even in a park as well-protected and scrutinized as Central Park. Saves taxes, provides activities that the city doesn’t want to handle, and even provides a revenue stream to pay for maintenance. As I said before, the facilities need to be well-designed and not infringe on other uses,the environment, and the quality of life of neighbors. But should that preclude any improvements? Should that mean Vets Park needs to stay exactly the way it is? Let’s wait for the real park experts to tell us.
    Do I think the miniature golf course as proposed for Vets Park was the right choice? I have no idea because the debate never happened! It was mis-handled by the city from the get-go, and I understand the neighbors anger at it. It may have been all wrong, but the underlying premise remains the same-get private business to help pay for improvements, get more people into the park, and let’s allow a wider choice of activities to exist there without raising taxes. But let’s wait for the real park experts to tell us this public-private arrangement is not happening everywhere else, in parks across the country that are funding improvements without raising taxes, and then I will listen and shut up.

    Despite this ugly backlash to my lonely efforts, I will not back down as an advocate for Norwalk’s parks, which like many parts of the city are not in the best of shape. Thank you for your time, and I will just proudly sign off with just 2 of the many insults I have been handed since speaking up about this: legend in my own mind, and yard man with a degree.

  • 10 Art Santella // Sep 18, 2007 at 7:01 pm

    Mike, I just listened to your call. As far as I am concerned it is past history,and already forgotten about. Between us lets just say “Pax.”

    Art Santella

  • 11 Mr Greenpeace // Sep 18, 2007 at 7:40 pm

    Mike lets be honest with the everyone out here, I just came from Vets park while town workers still with green and orange safety vest are drinking and the other groups mabe number 40 are all doing the same you may want to include a liquor store in your plans for the park ,,its what I just saw simple and plain.So stop your I know crap for a moment and listen, I have listened to you.

    The only ones on the field enjoying any kind of leisure were the geese and seagulls. Why don’t we open a petting zoo instead.

    the field is in tough shape and you have had the test results come back from the park its clean no underground surprises ready to spend my money correct?

    If not lets give the public a lesson in testing how much do you think it might cost for the entire park?

    Could of done it on the EPA ticket when they strarted the Superfund site on the other side of the city if they were smart back then right?

    Did you go down and take any samples when they used the auger and send it out to a lab?

    I guess what bothers me more is your lack of expertise where a grunt like me can ask stupid questions and make sense to a rookie.

    I have seen countless writings on what did sit there what was dumped there and now we have a brownfield report that said 200 possible site in the city plus,,does a non professional in the field of land art think maybe thats 200 business’s that dumped waste into the landfill also at Vets Park is that a possibility?

    we don’t want runnoff becuase we know there is waste, is it not a possibility there are no drains on the property allowing any suspected waste to make it to the harbour by path of least resistance.

    Have you got the news article on Vets park in front of you recently done by the Advocate have you discounted that as garbage on the reporters part ? I don’t a well written article in my estmation some fact not sentiment towards what the people want.

    Most companies I know that work with parks and old landfills are aware on how to use the land without disturbing contamination below, i can name a few the city is using one right now on Oyster Park nice way of pulling the wool over the eyes of the taxpayers and children don’t you think..

    so tell me do you have at last the minimum certificate to work around haz mat sites what is it in conn a 20 hour class?

    I know the city just hired a company to do work without
    the certificates and they are now under a watchfull eye of osha. Supose you know what I’m talking about the city didn’t.

    So pull my rant apart i don’t care I’m for the city and the residents not red herrings so we forget our obligations from previous administrations who knew they were covering something over,, i bet you see a lot of retirements now that these issues are surficing they always do in a city like this..

    whats the firemen care any money they would of gotten will go to the fat cats who know there time is near a end in the system.tell me I’m wrong an anything I’ll defend myself but if I’m wrong I’ll admit to it..

    i didn’t check spelling or structure tonight I just wrote sorry aunt Bertha I will get better I promise

  • 12 Frederick Law Olmstead // Sep 18, 2007 at 7:53 pm

    This “discussion” brings tears to my eyes!

  • 13 Mr Greenpeace // Sep 18, 2007 at 8:45 pm

    I trust I gave you something to laugh about or is just sad Frederick ?

  • 14 A concerned Vet Park Neighbor // Sep 18, 2007 at 9:32 pm

    I am surprised and disheartened that a simple plea for a rational process in the planning for whatever development ensues in Vets’ park should degrade into such pointless vitriol. The mention of luxury condos, pools and yachts is entirely irrelevant to the process of effectively addressing a complex city/park planning matter. To invoke the language of class-struggle where little exists in a moderate income community is little more than a shameless, neurotic distraction. We all need to take a deep breath and get substantive issues like land-use management, soil toxicity studies, cost-benefit analyses, harbor/wetland/conservation balances, traffic flow studies, flood management, noise pollution, waste-disposal, updated surveys and legal opinion on deed restrictions, to name the most important. When this information is provided, then the interested citizens should process the facts and dialogue in an organized manner. If and when this matter is given a public hearing, I would propose that the services of the League of Women Voters be employed to structure the discussion. To date what we have in this Vets’ Park issue is a haphazard melee of “let’s try this, or maybe we can try this, or maybe that” depending on who grabs the bullhorn first. Little wonder the chaos created by the whimsical planning of Parks and Rec will continue to understandably anger concerned neighbors and other Norwalkers who have the right to the best science available rather than the whim of self-declared experts who seem more comfortable with frail demogoguery over solid disciplined study.

  • 15 mike mushak // Sep 18, 2007 at 10:39 pm

    Hey Mr. Ed Pulice, (a concerned Vet Park Neighbor),
    Obvious that was you. You are so surprised and disheartened? Give us a break, oh pure innocent one! Weren’t you the one who wanted the park to return to salt marsh, so you wouldn’t be bothered by “those” people in the park? Weren’t you the one who lied in his letters, made up facts, and admitted it, because you said it was naive to think telling the truth was necessary in a debate, since winning was everything,a skill you learned in college debating class? Wasn’t it you who shamelessly and sexistly called the female consultant “Lady Consultant”, repeatedly in one of your published letters, because you disagreed with her, and what a could a woman possibly know what the real experts would know? Now all of a sudden you are going to take the high road? Give us all a break. You never wanted “those” people in the park (your words), and now you are going to demand objective study, and calm discussions? What gives? And use your real name. No one else hides behind clever phrasing, and pure obfuscation, like you, so there is no use faking it. You are actually responsible for ratcheting this argument down to this level, generating fear in the neighborhood with irrational scenarios like storm surges, drunken riots, racist and sexist comments, and insulting everyone who dared not agree with your anti-democratic position, and then you sit back and enjoy the mayhem your vicious diatribe has created. And now it’s the high road? Well maybe my letters did have an impact, if it meant educating a clearly anti-parks person like yourself. Glad you have seen the light. Now we can finally move on. Just spare us the lectures on how to behave in the public realm. That is truly funny! And let’s start talking about restoring that waterfront abomination you live in to salt marsh. Then I will be truly convinced of your conversion.
    Your friend,

  • 16 You other one // Sep 18, 2007 at 11:51 pm

    Get a life!

  • 17 Vet Park Junkie // Sep 19, 2007 at 7:23 am

    Olmstead? I wonder what he would have proposed. Time for some pleasant reading today. …and to start to see what’s happened to the art in the last 100 years…

  • 18 Concerned Vets Park Neighbor // Sep 19, 2007 at 10:06 am

    The case here speaks for itself: The point of anonymity is to prevent a discussion from becoming a Fox News style slugfest. While there are those who may be entertained by the drama, or even base their planning on ill-conceived belief or prejudice, there is the rest of us who would demand Vets’ Park planning serve as a model for what should happen in the broader civic realm: cool and rational thinking based on the study and opinion of acknowledged experts in land-use management and urban planning. Apart from that, the exchange on this blog will be little more than an unseemly display of neurotic bias.

  • 19 F L Olmstead // Sep 19, 2007 at 10:41 pm

    #13 The tears are from sadness because this discussion has degenerated into a set of knee jerk reactions regarding commercial uses in a park. Look at central park . Tell me what you see grasshopper.

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