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Norwalk: Penalty and Longer Delay For Demolishing Historic Structures Considered


by turfgrrl


August 18th, 2007 · 24 Comments

Apparently all of our comments regarding the lack of recourse following the Sunday night demolition of 124 East ave have been heard. Council President Mike Coffey and chair of the ordinance committee committee has followed the links here to craft a new demolition delay ordinance that increases the delay to 180 days and adds a penalty.

I am thrilled that the blog has prompted some quick and positive action about this issue, and while its not the only issue that has prompted council activity, this one is deserves a big thank you. All of our current council members deserve much thanks for listening and responding behind the scenes on many of the issues raised here.

From The Hour:

offey said he will put forward for consideration a 180-day demolition delay ordinance modeled after what the town of Monroe has adopted. The Monroe ordinance allows the town to fine property owners $1,000 — or the assessed value of the property — for demolishing a historic structure without a permit.
“Extending the time period is good, so it keeps everyone talking for a longer period,” said Norwalk Zoning Commissioner Jackie Lightfield. And the Monroe ordinance “answers the question of penalizing a property owner for violating the demolition delay order. There is no penalty in Norwalk.”

Lightfield added, however, that “invoking that type of fine (the assessed value) should be limited to properties that meet a very exacting and high standard of criteria, so you don’t end up having property owners fearful of being fined for demolishing something old.”

A structure would have to have some significant attributes and not simply be 50 years old, according to Lightfield.

Like Norwalk’s existing ordinance, the Monroe ordinance sets forth rules by which demolitions of building 50 years and older may be delayed. Those rules include a provision for a public hearing.

Under the base legislation adopted by the state, a building must be 50 years or older and meet eligibility criteria for inclusion in the Norwalk Historic Resource Inventory, State Register of Historic Places or National Register of Historic Places, to be eligible for demolition delay.

State Sen. Bob Duff, D-25, who pushed to have the state double the delay period, said additional time is needed to find alternatives to demolition — if municipalities so choose.

Last year, when the city’s Historical Commission and Norwalk Preservation Trust invoked the 90-day demolition delay for the Grumman St. John House at 93 East Ave., Chris Handrinos, owner of the property, protested.

Handrinos is co-owner of the Norwalk Inn & Conference Center.

Siding with Handrinos was Mayor Richard A. Moccia and many fellow Republicans who contended that the commission could not itself invoke the delay and remain objective when hearing testimony during the resulting public hearing.

Their theory was based upon an opinion from the city’s law department.

Moccia indicated Friday that he has concerns about boosting the city’s demolition delay period to 180 days, but added he might support it provided the city redefines what constitutes “historic.”

“If we’re going to look at that ordinance and go to (180 days), then I’d like to look at changing the (building) age,” Moccia said. “I don’t think I could support 180 days without moving the age to 75. I just don’t believe houses built in 1956 or 1957 are historical. They may be interesting, but I don’t consider them historical.”

Council Minority Leader Richard A. McQuaid, a Republican and member of the Ordinance Committee, said he wants to see the proposed ordinance before commenting on it. Speaking generally, he expressed skepticism about applying another municipality’s ordinance to Norwalk or hastily changing the city’s existing ordinance.

source: The Hour, Ordinance panel weighs longer demolition delay, By ROBERT KOCH. August 18, 2007

Tags: In the News · Norwalk

24 Responses so far “Norwalk: Penalty and Longer Delay For Demolishing Historic Structures Considered”



  • 1 i told you so-not! // Aug 18, 2007 at 11:43 am

    Here we go again another slam, bang Coffey law. Push it through, why bother analyzing it. He will cut and paste some other communities law whether it works or not. For a guy who supposedly is fighting the use of emanate domain, has no problem taking away rights in this manner. What a hypocrite.
    People who own property deserve better than this!!Norwalk deserves better.

  • 2 nwlknative // Aug 18, 2007 at 12:04 pm

    I am pleased that the council is considering the 180 demolition delay and the fines - that is important. The fines should be on the assessed value, rather than a measly $1000.00. That is nothing to some of these developers. The one problem I see is the age of the building. There was a big building boom in the 50’s and 60’s here in Norwalk and most of the neighborhoods around Strawberry Hill and West Rocks were built during that time. These homes are all 50 years old or are becoming 50 years old soon - but really do not carry significant historical value. The 180 delay should be for homes 100 years old or older - ones that really are historical.

  • 3 AnonymousDem // Aug 18, 2007 at 12:09 pm

    This is a start, but there needs to be a commitment to preserve Norwalk’s history beyond just demolition.

  • 4 anonymous // Aug 18, 2007 at 1:36 pm

    It is a start, and it is good to see someone at least trying to do something. Thank you Bob Duff and Mike Coffey.

  • 5 John S. // Aug 18, 2007 at 2:06 pm

    Why stop at 180 days, why not ask for a year? This is not going to stop people from tearing down old homes, it just raises the costs of doing business.

  • 6 L'arlequino // Aug 18, 2007 at 2:41 pm

    I own a home that was built in 1915 and it’s not your typical colonial, which is unusual in this area - it’s Arts & Crafts style. It’s not yet 100 years old, either, but is certainly worth preserving in my estimation. If push comes to shove, perhaps 75 years is a good compromise.

    There is also the former Remington Rand/NCC building on Wilson Avenue, which was constructed in the 40’s and is significant not only because of its architectural style but also because groundbreaking work on the first business computer was conducted there.

    Unless a building that was constructed in the 50’s is significant architecturally or historically, it’s going to be a hard sell to preserve it in Norwalk.

    Other communities, like New Canaan, have landmark houses built in the 40’s and 50’s by such architects as Frank Lloyd Wright, and are having problems keeping developers from demolishing them.

    Smart growth, which is a stated principle of Moccia and the Redevelopment Agency, takes into account the preservation of historic structures to maintain the existing character of a community.

    180 days is a small price for a developer to pay if the advocates of historic preservation can find a way to reach a compromise that avoids demolition of structures like 134 East Avenue.

  • 7 anonymous // Aug 18, 2007 at 3:02 pm

    I don’t see why people who want old houses saved just buy them. If someone buys a house and wants to tear it down that’s their business.

  • 8 Anonymous // Aug 18, 2007 at 4:03 pm

    Because our system of government allows the citizenry to speak in favor of creating laws and ordinances that better the community. It’s called “for the benefit of the many over the benefit of the few”.

    I am sure that this will draw out the property rights advocates that will say that unrestrained development is in the best interest of the community. Well, that’s what happened on Connecticut Avenue, which is now a classic example of suburban sprawl, and the businesses of which contribute less than their share of the tax revenue base when compared with homeowners, both in property taxes and in inventory that moves in and out of the stores and for which the town collects nothing.

    Let’s say you’re in favor of restoring the band equipment that was lost by Norwalk High School in the fire the other day. Well, why don’t you go out and just buy them a whole new band? In an ideal world there would be one person out there that would. Sometimes that happens. But when it doesn’t, you’re likely to find a group of people coming together, to try to achieve what one person cannot.

  • 9 #13 of the Miserable 25 // Aug 18, 2007 at 4:52 pm

    Poster 8 wrote
    “I am sure that this will draw out the property rights advocates that will say that unrestrained development is in the best interest of the community.”

    That is past history. Only those involved with developers or who expect to make a profit off unrestrained development would want this today. There is a growing number of people in this city who are fed up to the eyeballs, with someone else getting the gold, and the Norwalk taxpayer getting the shaft. The taxpayer is only getting smarter due to renewed interest in now eyeing what is going on without their knowledge, the Internet, E Mail, Newspapers, coupled with the fact that they are just plain sharper than the taxpayer who turned the other cheek every time in past decades. In the future the taxpayers are going to start slapping a few cheeks, (BOTH SIDES.) So any politician who is reading this far, had better “wake up.” The days of “Let them eat cake” are gone forever. You can take that to the bank.

  • 10 taxpaying developer // Aug 18, 2007 at 4:58 pm

    Since developers contribute more tax dollars to Norwalk, don’t you think they deserve a say?

  • 11 Anonymous // Aug 18, 2007 at 6:06 pm

    Contribute more tax dollars how? If you’re really a developer, I am sure that it would be child’s play for you to convince me.

  • 12 ANonymous // Aug 18, 2007 at 6:55 pm

    Zoning laws are in effect to make sure what happens on a specific property is consistent with what other properties are being used dor in that zone. Not to prevent someone tearing down a structure and rebuilding something for use that is consistent within that zone. And condominiums do provide a higher percentage of tax revenue per parcel of land than single family homes. If you can fit 8 condominium units on a lot that would accomodate 2 single family homes, the amount of taxes paid for that parcel of land is 2 to 3 times higher with condos. And since most condo owners are single, oe married without children, the number of children on that property will be similar to the amount that would be occupied by the single family homes. And for those of you pushing for affordable housing, condo units are priced cheaper than single family homes of the same size. And due to common charges, the property will probably be better maintained.

  • 13 Anonymous // Aug 19, 2007 at 6:33 am

    The problem with condos is the resources on the city’s infrastructure that is needed to support them, so are they really that much more profitable to the city in terms of property tax dollars?

  • 14 ANonymous // Aug 19, 2007 at 8:33 am

    Extra use of infrastructure not nearly as expensive to city residents as having school aged children. Condos are far less likely to house school aged children than single family homes. Aomeone reminds us what percentage of the city budget goes toward Board of Ed.

  • 15 anon again // Aug 19, 2007 at 9:10 am

    Two concerns with condos:

    1- a more transient population (with singles and non-family groups) — not neccessarily a good thing for a community since there is little opportunity to tranistion from condo to homeownership in Norwalk due to cost of single family homes.

    2- an older population (with retirees downsizing and looking for less maintenance) — also not great for a community as these people spend less, are not part of a labor force, and unlikely to contribute to business or job growth in the community. Younger workers commute from other (less expensive towns) adding to traffic congestion.

    So, think about what a large number of condos do to the community in the long term, not just the immediate impact.

    Seems to me we need to keep some of those smaller, more affordable houses in the neat little nieghborhoods so we can keep younger families in town. This is the backbone of a vibrant community — not the young singles or older baby boomers who are the condo population.

    Some statistics from a 2003 HUD report:

    “Family and Household Demographics

    …husband-wife families occupied only 34.6 percent of condos and co-ops and 27.5 percent of rental units, as shown in exhibit 7. … Nonfamily households account for approximately 32 percent of all households but account for approximately 53 percent of condos and co-ops, 48 percent of rental units, and 23 percent of owner-occupied units.

    The racial composition of condo and co-op households is similar to that of owner-occupied households. White householders occupy approximately 86 percent of owner-occupied units, 82 percent of condos and co-ops, and 67 percent of rental units, as shown in exhibit 7. Approximately 21 percent of renter households have Black householders, whereas less than 9 percent of both owner-occupied and condo and co-op households have Black householders. Of the 106 million households in the United States, approximately 9 percent have a Hispanic householder. Hispanic householders are more common in rental properties, where approximately 15 percent of households with Hispanic householders live compared with approximately 9 percent of condo and co-op households and 6.5 percent of owner-occupied households.

    … Looking at households with people ages 65 and older reveals that condos and co-ops cater to this population, as 27.9 percent of condos and co-ops have householders in that age group. Householders younger than 45 occupy 65.1 percent of rental units, whereas condos and co-ops have 41.4 percent and owner-occupied units have 37.0 percent in that age group.

    Household incomes for condos and co-ops are approximately 50 percent higher than rental units and approximately 20 percent lower than owner-occupied units, as shown in exhibit 7. Approximately 42 percent of condo and co-op households have incomes of $50,000 or more. Only 20.7 percent of rental households have incomes in that range, but more than 50 percent of owners have incomes in this range. Median incomes also follow this pattern: condo and co-op households have median incomes of approximately $42,000, renter households approximately $27,000, and owners $51,000. “

  • 16 ANonymous // Aug 19, 2007 at 10:10 am

    Anon again

    Thanks for the stats. I think they actually back my position. Less retirees and singles or couples without children are less of a burden on taxpayers.

    Generally, you will find that single couples or marrieds without children have more disposable income. They will spend their money. I yhink people are forgetting that this is a city, not a small quaint seaport community that some would like it to be.

  • 17 anon again // Aug 19, 2007 at 12:14 pm

    There could be a great opportunity to preserve historic structures, create affordable housing, and develop areas of the city that are languishing by taking a creative look at rehabing existing buildings to create affordable units and using the tax credits available for historic preservation. The best of all possible worlds, don’t you think?

    A prime candidate might be the old hat factory down by the train station.

  • 18 anonymous // Aug 19, 2007 at 7:14 pm

    There might not be a fine on the books quite yet for demolishing Norwalk history with such disregard, but I would think that the building department and the zoning department, since 124 East Avenue is no longer zoned—-can at least use that fact as a reason to play hardball with the Westport developer who came in and trashed our town—they should demand an architectural review of any plans to address the facade issue and a public hearing for that site prior to any zoning or building permits granted.

  • 19 Anonymous // Aug 19, 2007 at 8:27 pm

    As I have said before, we can expect another house of 1,000 gables like the crap behind it on the river, taking the citizen’s view of the river away. I hope this developer and others like him “lose their shirts” in this economy!

  • 20 Anonymous // Aug 20, 2007 at 7:32 am

    I’d like to suggest an ice rink for 124 East Avenue so the idiots who run this city can have a permanent reminder of where their priorities lie.

  • 21 Anonymous // Aug 20, 2007 at 8:41 am

    I’d like to suggest an ice rink at Calf Pasture beach. The beach is closed from October to May, has plenty of parking and would give some revenue during the winter months. Look at the great rink Westport has at Longshore. The beach sits quietly for all those months except for a few cars that dot the landscape. Imagine the possibilities for birtyhday parties, fundraisers and family outings.

  • 22 Anonymous // Aug 20, 2007 at 9:21 am

    #19 - Until the City replaces the heavy industry on the river, like the asphalt plant, with something worth looking at, like greenbelts and other sustainable development options, there won’t be any incentive (or public/municipal pressure) for developers to build anything besides eyesores like the one you mention.

    I find it curious that in all the discussion and planning for the renewal of the Wall Street and Reed-Putnam areas that nothing has been said about how the heavy industrial sites along the river will impact them, or whether the City would benefit by replacing them with other business or residential usage.

  • 23 Museum Pro // Aug 20, 2007 at 9:31 am

    #21 - Why not put a rink in Mathews Park - It would be near the historic Crystal Rink location, and would help to take away any green space left after Steppingstones, Former Police Department, Tennis Courts, Bike Paths, Walking Paths, Additional Parking were added.

  • 24 Anonymous // Aug 20, 2007 at 10:07 am

    Museum Pro-I know you were being sarcastic but I wasn’t. I do belive Calf Pasture would be an iddeal place for a skating rink.

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