YourCT.com header image 2

Norwalk: Where Are All The People?


by turfgrrl


July 7th, 2007 · 62 Comments

Now that we are in July, both the Democrats and Republicans are busy finalizing their lists of candidates for the fall elections. They will hold nominating conventions later in the month. What neither party wants you to know is that they are struggling to find qualified candidates to run for office. But its not just political parties, the SoNo Business Association cancelled this years Splash event because they didn’t have enough people to organize the event. This year’s Oyster festival to be held in September, is rumored to be the last. The Norwalk Jazz festival had a low turnout, the SoNo Arts festival which should be kicking off in 3 weeks has yet to advertise, and the list unfortunately goes on.

So where are the people?

Population in Norwalk is by all accounts growing, although estimates vary. A little over 1% increase since 2000 would indicate that like much of Fairfield County, the population growth is happening with an increase of immigrants.

The population growth and changing demographics of the region are other critical factors influencing Fairfield County’s economy.

” As important as how many people there are, is who they are,” Bruhl said.

Bruhl said there is a dramatic decline of people under age 55 in the region, just as the over 55 population surges.

In addition, 18 percent of the people in Fairfield County are foreign-born, which is 50 percent more than the national average, according to Bruhl.

Also, one-third of the babies born in Fairfield County are born to foreign mothers.

“The region and state must invest heavily in closing the achievement gap,” he said. “Human capital of Fairfield County is changing. We must economically integrate immigrants in the first generation because we going to have a labor shortage.”

Bruhl said the data used for such presentations comes from the Fairfield County Information Exchange, which is directed by Lisa Mercurio and is an arm of the Business Council of Fairfield County. In the absence of a County government, Bruhl said, it is important that the Information Exchange gathers regional data to separate Fairfield County numbers from the state and tri-state region.

“It’s important that we understand that dual identity with Connecticut and the New York Metro area,” he said. “Without data we’re talking theoretically. We’re a fact-based advocate for business in Fairfield County.”

And facts say that the generational divide is being fueled by the high costs of living in Norwalk and the surrounding town. Younger residents are just not moving to Norwalk, not just because of the costs, but also because Norwalk is no longer offers much to attract young people. Where city leaders point to Walmart as a sign of economic vibrancy, other towns get Target, Whole Foods, Urban Outfiters, Crate and Barrel and Ikea. To be fair, national retail chains select site locations based on demographics on the ground, and putting a Target on West ave. is not going to suddenly lower the median age of Norwalk.

Knowing this you would think that political leaders would focus on encouraging the best candidates to run for office, ones that have an eye on the next 20 years instead of the last 20. But no. One need only look at the seemingly lost opportunity to reform the Board of Ed. The Democrats seem fine with putting up yet another candidate who thinks everything is just fine with a school superintendent who has:

In 2006, three of the city’s four middle schools and nine of its 12 elementary schools, along with a “community school” were cited as falling behind in standards for the federal “No Child Left Behind” Act. Three elementary schools had not met the standards for two years in a row, so students in those schools are offered the choice to go to a Norwalk public school that hasn’t been designated as needing improvement. source:

The Republicans are struggling to find candidates to run for the Board of Ed. And so, instead of we the voters having an opportunity to pick form teh best each party has to offer, I’m afraid we’ll be left with picking from the best from the bottom of the barrel. Volunteers for entertainment events, its turns out, is just the tip of the iceberg.

source:, The Wilton Villager, Business Council outlines impacts on region, by CHRIS BOSAK, July 7, 2007

Tags: In the News · Norwalk

62 Responses so far “Norwalk: Where Are All The People?”


Pages: [1] 2 » Show All



  • 1 Anonymous // Jul 7, 2007 at 10:12 am

    Turf,it is very difficult to get volunteers these days, believe me I know first hand. The work behind getting events off the ground is exhausting and cuts deeply into your personal life. I have been volunteering for events for years and I can tell you that come the day of the event is the most disappointing when those who have “promised” to be there don’t show up and the work is left to others who were expecting a couple hours service that have now turned into an entire day because of lack of workers. Most events are to raise money for certain charities or scholarships and therefore if you have to pay them you dig into the money intended for these entities. It would be great if we could attract younger people but they have on the most part, young children, pressing careers etc that prevent them from doing so and alot of the older folk that used to do all the volunteering are either too old to do this or many have passed away which was quite evident at the Italian Festival. All the former volunteers who were actually part of the original festivities some 50 years ago and up to even 1-2 years ago are no longer there. This in itself takes away from the ambience and now its just a matter of expensive rides, expensive foods and youngfamilies just can’t afford the extra $100-$200 it would cost them to enjoy a few hours at this or other events. As far as political parties scrambling to find candidates, they need to start attracting younger people but the infighting and negativity isn’t very attractive when recruiting new blood as it were. Unfortunately you still have some of the older regime who feel they have have the right to dictate and that all others should fall in step. Time to step aside folks and let others in.

  • 2 anon // Jul 7, 2007 at 10:34 am

    Maybe it’s a whole turning inward of the culture. Recreation is less and less something you do with others and more someting you do by yourself (like — ahem — blogging.) And, the more people are fed a fear of the “other” by media — whether that “other” is the deer tick or the child predator or the terrorist — the more cautious and insular they become. Add to that the general level of cynicism about politics, business, and “do-good/ feel good” organizations. Layer onto it the American work ethic that has us working more hours than the rest of the world’s workers. Plus, fewer and fewer neighborhoods have the kind of street life that leads to casual interactions and social connections wtih neighbors. All of this mushes together to make it easier to stay home and watch TV. Read “Bowling Alone” for some interesting (if dry) insight on the culture shift away from “community”.

  • 3 Demo // Jul 7, 2007 at 10:39 am

    The democrats running a 80 year old for Mayor is a damn shame. This is proof that Galen wants all the power to come from her own district (e). We need a younger mayor to bring Norwalk into the future. Republicans should pick up one or two at large seats.

    Galen is the worst town chair in the state.

  • 4 Katie // Jul 7, 2007 at 11:22 am

    Turfie, you hit the nail on the head. There is a problem. Not only is it expensive to live in Fairfield County, but culturally it really does not attract many people. Not much to do or at least it really isn’t advertised what is available specifically when it relates to cultural activities such as the arts. The current arts council in Norwalk really doesn’t promote any type of public art activities and hasn’t done much since being created.

    SoNo is a great area to foster this type of potential(and it has actually been that way for some time), but unless people can afford to live in the area you are really left with a stagnant mindset and a future that is hinging on the success of an entertainment district.

    I also agree that politically both parties really need to do something to attract a younger crowd say in their 30’s and 40’s. It seems that politically we have a similar problem on the national level although we have seen some change in some elections nationwide. Consistently recruiting, appointing the same group really doesn’t help the future, in so many cases it causes divisiveness, getting stuck and creating an environment of exclusion. We really need an environment that promotes inclusion.

    I don’t think this is an impossible task. It is similar to the concept of mentoring which many of us are familiar with and probably helped with our careers. A program like this would certainly bring needed change. Every generation brings their cultural perspective and having new blood would certainly create an excitement for the area.

    In private industry having an open mind to change is needed in order to survive and compete. Politically we need a similar mindset to compete as well. Perhaps more public private partnerships are needed instead of the us against them mentality.

  • 5 Anonymous // Jul 7, 2007 at 12:12 pm

    I agree younger blood is needed but to leave out the 50’s category or the 20’s category is really non productive. The 20’s are the future and the 50’s are the seasoned. Someone needs to guide the newcomers. The old regime needs to have input but not not rule. Yes, they have all done their time but their ideas don’t always reflect today’s society. We are more diverse and independant thinkers that have a tendancy to do things differently. Its not to say put them out to pasture because their experience is endless but to allow them to hold entire parties hostage with their allegiance to certain individuals is counter productive to what is needed to come together as a country/state or municipality.

  • 6 Anonymous // Jul 7, 2007 at 12:46 pm

    A husband and wife team running for office. What a joke? The Briggs’ are the new king and queen of norwalk- with Galen playing the role as court jester.

  • 7 anon // Jul 7, 2007 at 12:47 pm

    Just think how many things she will have to recuse herself from. Or..will she????

  • 8 Beach Bum // Jul 7, 2007 at 1:07 pm

    What is happening is people are not volunteering less but are helping charitable organizations where they feel needed. While there maybe bickering and power-struggles within the professional part of the organization, those who volunteer do it out of love for the individual. For example, I occasionally donate food items to the St Vincent de Paul Society at St Thomas Church. I always see the volunteers treat the needy and each other with dignity and respect. I constantly hear about teens volunteering to help the elderly, the poor, and infirmed. I see teens in my own parish helping out with CCD and charitable projects. I see moms with young children volunteering to teach religion to others and helping with other church activities. Their help is always gratefully acknowledged by the pastor and other persons of authority. Yet, sometimes a simple but genuine thank you is all that is needed. That’s all I need. I have young children but I volunteer now more than ever. I could go on and on.

    Those organizations who have trouble getting volunteers or retaining them need to re-evaluate their raison d’etre.

  • 9 Katie // Jul 7, 2007 at 1:18 pm

    #5, I agree, but nothing is being done. I was trying to make a point that recruiting/appointing the same group over and over again is unproductive. New blood regardless will bring in a new perspective.

  • 10 Mr Greenpeace // Jul 7, 2007 at 1:54 pm

    Its sad , after coming from Mill hill events, enjoying the city historical value, inhaling all of the detail at the church and listening to the organ and pipes(what a jewel), to come home and read the here and now simply makes me wonder what we are passing on to our children who for the most part through the schools and class trips know the city for the historical, know the men and woman from all the depts who maintian the city and emergency services to someday learn what was once the current culture events that kept the city alive.

    I realize everything is not going to come to a end, I realize when talks start going in the direction of ending certain events because of volunteer and committed people to organizations and churches are experiencing event holding troubles it does spur participation by young and old blood, but one does have to bear in mind our political structure which some describe have no confidence from the business and voter perspective at times hurts us all into demanding change.

    So what do we work on first? How does change begin, do both parties finally say this guy is good he is one of yours, and this woman is good she is one of ours so lets agree on the best leadership and use some tit for tat to get ahead?

    I did add to a thread earlier, and the Advocate did write about events needing to change with those times, creativity allowing all fronts to come together and make the money needed to bring in outside tourism so they come back for another visit when traveling 95.

    Then you have your diehard great food service vendors that have distanced themselves from the Chamber they don’t need them , nor do the small businesses that are unique their trade that only a google search will bring their customers in from outside the city.

    We need someone to pulll it all together I don’t mean ribbon cuting , or business opening pr and never to be heard from again but the type of pr in papers that show a live on going success fro example Turfgrrl mention the SoNo bakery and others along water st all gems the city have far away from wall st and main st and the redevelopment projects..yes its nice to see grand openings but never a packed house with other stories about the patrons and their busienss there.Where to find them again and no mention of the business from a buyers perspective. I’m sorry but here on this blog you see the adverse pr by saying he was at the grand opening must be some political tie heck with it I’m not going there( I’m a guilty one , I’ll stand alone but man enough to admit it).Not the way to think not the way to show homegrown support for new business but I feel by reading from others it may play a part on successs in town maybe not,,I just like to present what I see ,,wrong or right its only my observation.

    Where are all the people? I was pointed out others who ran for office from years back by the wife, from the outset they seem personable, with charm grace and intelligence some out here have spun some great thoughts kicking around nominating others becuase they did battel and found what resistance well that sometimes get broken down over the years,,yes other reasons as well just trying to set the tone for my thoughts.

    So the people who tried before where are they were they that discouraged to run again or have they just weighed the odds and said not me not now?

    I’m not one to resign myself to only a man, there are woman in this city who could better serve the corner office that some who I have met or spoken to in my tour of the city. I’m afraid I’m one who will get the news from this site down the road from by porch in the White Mountains telling the kids they can go back and live here for colledge in the Ny or Ct and stay at the house, we always will have ties here but for now the here and now I’ll be supportive and very critical of where my taxes go and not design my battle to sell and run for the sake of profit over what my children enjoyed growing up in Norwalk.

    To have change you need a whole plan a outlet for news and the mere fact that people get what they complain about and jump in on the next fight that doesn’t fit there agenda will say a lot. The vote is in the forgotten, the disadvatage the homeless and the ileegals,,the population figures right now are disturbing, the schools have said heads up in the fall our nubers could change with the influx,,by then we will have even more on our plate just form the melting pot were are creating each day in our city..

    anyone who calls this a town simply can’t accpept the emergency calls , the crime the socail services the simply maintenance of infrastucture is hard to maintain if there is not accountability of its assets and maybe the elimanation of districts. one for all not one for it s own. Whats not fair is the have and have nots they way charters were set up and the good old boys clubs I have seen need to be addressed but not by the next election..

    I have brought up quality of life issues most in office won’t address they cant with their own agenda’s theur own budgets, the news papers can’t touch some of this stuff it takes whistle blowing , throat cutting tactics that simply takes them out of the loop,,talk about a good reporter a bad reporter syndrome Norwalk has it. Some of the reporters have gone with leads of escappees and crime and told not now or have ignored them to a point the story becomes yesterdays news,,there fed press releases and news flashes where they can only write whats told asking anything additional by some of the stories that are done is apparrent. I am guilt of forgetting we have more that two news sources in the city the Hour and The Advocate are not the only two,,and to be honest with you this site has become a major player,,true or not once you read it here and follow it through and actually see some glimps of truth you wonder are we ver going to know the truth.

    My rant for the day took a road trip showed this site to people many miles away and they were impressed with the people and the site, the intellectual goldmine of thoughts and yes even some very day postings keeping it simple and mindless but just the same sometimes comical an sometimes very real.

    Too many organizations too many independent revenue seeking indivisuals, too many venues spread out without including local merchants who are here in the winter waiting out the storms so they can be hurt by negativity, crime and inflation along with rents when I inquired when coming to town prohibitive unless my business fit SoNo downtown,,

    I found that was the welcome wagon of events that told me no business here in the city kids not until we move to another sea coast or winter tourism type of venue.To many avenues have been shut down because of bad blood among the merchants, the farmers market needed more parking Vets park would of been ideal, I met a volunteer public official working the market to benifit the residents, a nice man who last year did good and never did I see on mention or thankyou for something he did , another black eye for the city.

    another rant by

    Mr Greenpeace

  • 11 turfgrrl // Jul 7, 2007 at 2:19 pm

    I should have added in the top post that in New Haven, where I tend to volunteer, the average age is 27, whereas in Norwalk it is 37. Median would be more interesting, but I didn’t see those numbers. But anyways, in New Haven, volunteer staffs are much younger and also come from surrounding towns as well. There’s a more regionalized recognition that for cultural activities at least, a willingness to look beyond town borders. I don’t think that is the mindset in greater Norwalk.
  • 12 Jeff Hall // Jul 7, 2007 at 2:23 pm

    What do you mean, where are all the people? We are all on our computers reading your weblog (and finding mortgages, bidding on auction items, checking our email…)

    http://createdthings.blogspot.com/

  • 13 Mr Greenpeace // Jul 7, 2007 at 2:36 pm

    figures are sometimes decieving but here is one page I found interesting leaves a lot of comparisons to make,, it speaks for itself

    http://www.hellostamford.com/crime.cfn

  • 14 nwlknative // Jul 7, 2007 at 10:46 pm

    People don’t seem to have the time to volunteer anymore. I see this in every organization I belong to. Years back, most mothers stayed home and the fathers worked. Kids came home after school, played outside and did their homework. All that has changed. Most families have two working parents, plus the kids are involved in several sports and after school activities that take up any extra time a parent might have to volunteer. I see so many young mothers and fathers so stressed out just trying to get their kids from school to games, activities, etc. and finding time for dinner, chores. It just becomes impossible to stretch their time any further. I know many people who would love to volunteer their time if they had it. There is no easy solution.

  • 15 Sara Sikes // Jul 9, 2007 at 4:15 pm

    This is a compelling and interesting topic, along with how to build a sense of community. Feeling that you are part of a community and volunteering go hand in hand, I believe. After many years of volunteering in various political and social organizations, and working as a volunteer coordinator, here’s what I’ve learned.

    The decline in numbers of volunteers is due to huge cultural and economic changes in American society, the women’s movement,the “me-generation” and others. Many of the local non-profits are on the verge of collapse, some of them named above. The government at all levels should encourage the continuation of non-profits and the services they offer to the community.
    The mayor’s decision last winter to begin charging non-profits $200 for a meeting room will be counter-productive in the long run.

    I agree with the person who said a “thank-you” can make all the difference. If volunteers are not treated graciously by the leadership and staff, the organization is in jeopardy.

  • 16 Aunt Bertha // Jul 9, 2007 at 4:57 pm

    I think if the Oyster Fest is run more like the one in Milford more people would attend and have more fun volunteering.
    1.No admissions fee- people come from all over to go and even walk down town to check it out.
    2.It is held for only one day rain or shine! So most people plan gatherings that night with people in town just for the day.
    3.It is from 10am-6pm and has one major band that people really want to see.
    4.With no admissions fee people spend money at the craft areas, food areas, and down town resturants.
    5.If you are a resident you work for your church, group,chamber just to see your family and friends.
    6.Large police presence so drinkers who over indulge are taken care of promptly and because it is so affordable for a family there is large group of young children which most older fest goers recognize and try to set an example in good behavior.

    Norwalk used to be like this 20 years ago. I have been to the Oyster Fest almost every year that Norwalk has had it. I have seen when you make it too expensive you take out the family groups that would love to go and enjoy the day. When you take out these families they do not want to volunteer because they can not see their other family members during the days events. Call me old fashioned but if you neglect a group of people they will not show.

  • 17 anon // Jul 9, 2007 at 5:05 pm

    Well Aunt Bertha, I would have to say then that this should be the last hoorah for the OysterFest since word has it that the entance fee will be $12 and I know from people I have talked to that live in Norwalk, they will not be attending. This is unfortunate but it is also a sign of the times when those in charge cannot run things properly and theyt switch to overcharging to cover their losses.

  • 18 Aunt Bertha // Jul 9, 2007 at 6:51 pm

    #17 you are right. The Oyster Fest first started as a gathering. We might have paid a few dollars at the door but that was only to cover clean up. High school students worked for community service hours for the Jaycees and some of the other tents. And in turn the Jaycees would make a nice donation to the school in the form of a scholarship or monies for uniforms for athletics. I can not afford to walk into a place for $12. Scale it down. Bring it back to a smaller simpliar affair and breathe the salt air…

  • 19 Anon // Jul 9, 2007 at 8:05 pm

    The price and the honky-tonk atmosphere are the big draw backs to the Norwalk Oyster Festival.
    I personlly thought Milford’s was a yawn. Maybe these festivals have lost their way in their need to make a buck.
    p.s. Mr. Greenpeace is killing us with his long tirades. I no longer read your stuff - too much - too long. You need to get out of the house.

  • 20 Mr Greenpeace // Jul 9, 2007 at 8:52 pm

    David McKeegan an enviromental anylist with the state DEP waste management Bureau said the ground there at Vets Park should be tested, the city should not leave it to a future generation to clean up , suppose the city officials that were interviewed that said the soil has never been tested has never been a concern but doesn’t mean it shouldn’t of been.

    When they spent all that time in Norwalk on the superfund site no hindsight to add to the testing samples from Vets Park? A practice that was done on most EPA sites checking for migration of chemicals within a city.

    My tirades usually point out oversights and sometimes stupidity of public officials, or lack of common sense while as a city we are paying top dollar for engineers and anylists for pet projects..

    Personally my taxes seem to be going towards wasteful spending, and the real issues are being sidelined because of their criteria and expense.

    Like I explained in earlier rants for those more comfortable with mundane news and issues on page A20 in the hour comics today ,,Moose and Molly need a new toaster that would seem to some to be of great interest than absorbing what we are ignoring with our environment.Most of my facts tonight came from an article Tim Stelloh wrote for the Advocate,,just wish he named the public officials.He also wrote it appears from the DEP no studies in the last 40 years have been done.

    #19 your federal tax dollars keeps me out of the house to work sites around the country in cities and towns remediating toxic time bombs that are ignored for years…

    With all this said I’m sure the park will be a great place to go and sit after groundwater has risen next storm..

  • 21 just thinking out loud // Jul 10, 2007 at 12:00 am

    Hi Mr. Greenpeace, are you saying that the grounds at Vets Park/aka Duffy’s Field are toxic? If they are should any thing like the Oyster Fest be held there at all? Thank you for your time, trying to keep sickness at bay.

  • 22 L'arlequino // Jul 10, 2007 at 8:18 am

    Here’s an interesting article on the areas of the country most likely to have high rates of volunteerism: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-07-08-volunteer-cities_N.htm

    Why do people in those areas volunteer? “…the right circumstances for volunteering: They feel connected to their communities, have more education, own their own homes, spend less time commuting and have more opportunities to give back…”

    Despite the home ownership issue, and oddly enough, Bridgeport ranks 14th in the country for most volunteers, ahead of New Haven, which beat out Hartford by one place.

  • 23 Lynn Higgins // Jul 10, 2007 at 9:05 am

    POST 21 wrote “Hi Mr. Greenpeace, are you saying that the grounds at Vets Park/aka Duffy’s Field are toxic?”

    No one ever took the time to check. The Toxic waste dredged from the Mill Pound that was deposited there by local factories from 1811 on, all flowed into the Mill Pond in East Norwalk. The Mill Pond is a tidal pond that flows freely into and out of the East Norwalk boat basin, and has done so for hundreds of years. If the Mill Pond was found by the DEP to be loaded with Lead, Arsenic, and Mercury, would it not be common sense to think that over the century these same toxins flowed into the bottom of the boat basin, out into the harbor and into the Sound. REMEMBER the mud that originally was used to fill Duffy’s Field and make Veterans Park was dredged from the Harbor floor and most likely contains the same contamination that was found in the Mill Pond just a 50 feet away from the harbor. Any excavation of the park could release these toxins into the upper soil and the air. Is it possible that we are letting our children and adults, playing sports on top of a huge toxic waste dump?

    The complete park should be tested, to make sure that we are not endangering anyone from a medical toxicity standpoint.

    You don’t have to be a a rocket scientist to figure out, that this should be tested. The helth effects of this contamination may not show up for years, but this makes it no less an emergency.

    It seems that some people did not care to see that this was or is done to protect our children and their children.

  • 24 turfgrrl // Jul 10, 2007 at 9:07 am

    L’arlequino: Interesting article, although I’m curious about the poll methodology. What people say they do, and what they actually do has an unfortunate deviation. I also question the correlation between home ownership and likely volunteerism. I suspect that the greater correlation might be longevity in residence, but I don’t have a statistical reason for that. New Haven I know has a strong volunteer community. I was surprised by Bridgeport.
  • 25 L'arlequino // Jul 10, 2007 at 9:45 am

    The “connection to community” would seem to be the most likely indicator although that’s somewhat of a nebulous descriptor. I didn’t become “connected” to Norwalk until I had been here for at least 10 years and was able to really become familiar with those who are engaged with local non-profits and City government.

    I always wondered if the high number of corporate employees in the area, who may be more transient than other residents, might have a negative impact on volunteerism rates.

  • 26 Mr Greenpeace // Jul 10, 2007 at 12:16 pm

    to 21 and 23 The thing I stress is about any area in the city is if its not addressed now while our city is conducting a brownfield study and we are seeking and securing grants for projects using land unclaimed because of contamination, why can’t the powers to be look at our options more carefully.

    An Environmental study group appointed by the mayor would be a good start,,look around and see what other cities have done.while we do nothing and ignore questions and listen to accounts from others who do know,

    Its all about money and should be about health and safety..why hasn’t there been any talk about the Oyster Park reports or the lack of them which clearly concern the DEP and EPA. Its not going to go away just sidelined while other pet projects and plans that do not include spending money on items like this continue,,bear in mind this is not good press for the festival or for the state who sends money this way expecting we as a city have planned on what to do about the areas of concern.

    So we wait no news is good news isn’t it?

  • 27 Lynn Higgins // Jul 10, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    Obviously we do not have or care to find the money to spend to protect our children from possible Toxic waste. We are only interested in development of these locations at ANY PRICE. This may end up destroying the desire of tourists to come if they find out that Norwalk feels that there is no need to verify the safety of these parks, this will pretty much kill Norwalk as a family friendly and environmentally safe park area. I don’t think the general public of Norwalk has any idea of what their children may be playing on or in.

    I think it is time for the Hour or Cable News 12 to do some questioning at the local, State and Federal EPA levels. They will not hide any facts, or try to stonewall any toxic testing.

  • 28 Mr Greenpeace // Jul 10, 2007 at 2:00 pm

    Lynn, I don’t think our officials have any idea of what our kids are playing in and around either,they have admitted that in only one article by the Advocate so far,,so where are the reporters who are basically the only outlet our residents have.

    This needs to be addressed but when and by who?

  • 29 Anonymous // Jul 10, 2007 at 2:42 pm

    Not only do our officials not have any idea, I am sure they would flee from taking any responsibility. This is a huge issue and one that is liable to have many of our elected officials passing the buck or blaming previous admins for the problem.

    Yes, it does need to be addressed, by someone who has a comprehensive idea of the real risks to the public health and who can communicate that in a way that enables the media to pick up on it.

    Your guess is as good as mine as to whom that might be.

  • 30 Anonymous // Jul 10, 2007 at 3:26 pm

    The same 25 miserable people giving out false info and trying to frighten everyone about Oyster park. You are all environmental experts and of course all elected officals are trying to hide something and really do not care about our children’s health. We are giving the city away to the developers. Might want to point out that Oyster park is a city project not owned by a developer. For those of you who read this blog who also shake your head over the miserble 25, You might want the truth. The records are available in DPW. the park was orignally capped in 1991, there was some concern about additional fill that was placed there so the property was tested by an indpendent lab and
    capped agaiain. There was no evidence of toxic waste. Anyone who wants to know the truth can have this verifed by asking for the info from DPW, you will ahve to pay .50 per page as reqired under FOIA. You know its bad enough that you miserable 25 claim that everyone is on the take, Norwalk is crumbling, the logo sucks, the town is terrible, no one does anything right. But to try and frighten people about toxic waste dumps in the city just shows what your mentallity is. Mr Greenpeace, whatever you are smoking is far more dangerous than the Oyster Shell Park. Oh I know the Redevelopment the DPW, the testing lab were all paid off the same way the city was paid off for the Jazz concert. As other people have said on this blog, why don’t you try getting a life and enjoy the town we live in. You all must be a lot of fun around a dinner table.

  • 31 Anonymous // Jul 10, 2007 at 3:33 pm

    Hey, I like that. You might want to use that as a campaign slogan in the upcoming elections. “ELECT ME AND I’LL FIGHT THE MISERABLE 25 _____ (insert appropriate slur here: hysterical preservationists/hysterical environmentalists/hysterical anti-Jazz Concertists, etc.)”

    I guess those same 25 people carry a lot of weight to get you all foaming at the mouth over their opinions. Which department of the City do you work in?

  • 32 L'arlequino // Jul 10, 2007 at 3:36 pm

    Interesting point about the lab tests you bring up, #25. Maybe you could provide some source info about which independent testing lab that was used? That way nobody can make accusations about the City hiding information or covering up anything.

  • 33 Anonymous // Jul 10, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    #32 No, but I understand that the info is avialable at the DPW. Nobody can accuse? Based on the previous comments, people already have. That is my point.

  • 34 Lynn Higgins // Jul 10, 2007 at 4:20 pm

    There was no evidence of toxic waste. Anyone who wants to know the truth can have this verified by asking for the info from DPW, you will ahve to pay .50 per page as reqired under FOIA.

    Common sense says that if a pond less than 75 feet from Vets park was heavily contaminated and that pond was tidal, and the chemicals flowed into the harbor, and Vets Park was filled with this same harbor mud, are you saying there is no proof of contamination. What proof is there that there is NO CONTINAMINATION?

    The DPW has a problem with keeping tract of how much sand and salt it needs each winter. Now you are telling us that we should go to them for environmental statistics? Would you rather take the chance that it is not there? Kind of like playing Russian Roulette with someone else’s kids life.

    I don’t think the city is hiding anything. I just think that they figure that ignorance of the problem is OK, and the hell with following safe procedures.

    If I remember correctly the folks who bought their dream homes in The Love Canal, took for granted that they were safe. That also included the city of Niagara NY that gave the project it’s seal of approval.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Canal#Health_problems.2C_activism.2C_and_site_cleanup

  • 35 L'arlequino // Jul 10, 2007 at 4:37 pm

    Here we go again. Here is the EPA analysis of the landfill underneath Oyster Shell Park at its website:http://yosemite.epa.gov/r1/npl_pad.nsf/8b160ae5c647980585256bba0066f907/876a88bee59e856285256b4200605e51!OpenDocument

    “The Norwalk Landfill (landfill) property is located along Cresent Street in Norwalk, Fairfield, Connecticut. Local tax assessment information is unknown. The 15-acre property is currently owned by the Town of Norwalk and an active transfer station is located on the property. The City of Norwalk is proceeding with permanent closure of the landfill and development of a municipal park on the property. The property is bordered to the north by Interstate-95 (I-95), to the west by a tidal channel and railroad right-of-way, and to the south and east by the Norwalk River.

    Prior to development, the property was a tidal marshland. An incinerator was built on the property in 1895. Aerial photographs indicate that by the 1940s most of the marshland was covered with ash. After construction of I-95 in the late 1950s, landfilling continued to the south of the highway. Reportedly, the incinerator ceased operating in the early 1970s, and since that time, the majority of landfill material consisted of bulky waste. The Connecticut Department of Environmental Protection (CT DEP) inspected the property in the early 1970s and found the landfill to be lacking in operating and closure requirements. The landfill was closed in 1979. In 1987, the property was included in the CT DEP’s Inventory of Hazardous Waste Sites as the property was identified as having the potential to contain hazardous wastes. Approximately 21,000 gallons of leachate per day are generated and may be fluxing in the Norwalk River; however, there is no observable impact on the river from the landfill. Results of a soil-gas survey indicate there are limited areas along the edge of the landfill where combustible gases have accumulated; however, the gas does not appear to be migrating off the property. Previous Investigations into the property include a Preliminary Assessment (PA) completed in 1989 and a Site Inspection (SI) completed in 1992.

    Approximately 1,902 people are served by public drinking water supply wells within 4-radial miles of the property and 6,521people are served by private drinking water supply wells within 4-radial miles of the property. The nearest public drinking water supply wells are located approximately 2 miles north-northwest of the property. The nearest private drinking water supply well is located within 1-radial mile of the property. Groundwater flows south to the Norwalk River, and groundwater occurs at a depth of approximately 12 feet below the ground surface. Analytical results of groundwater samples collected in 1993 from on-site monitoring wells indicated the presence of volatile organic compounds (VOCs), semivolatile organic compounds (SVOCs), and metals. Based on the distance to groundwater drinking water supply sources and groundwater flow direction, no impacts to nearby groundwater drinking water supply sources are known or suspected.

    Stormwater runoff flows radially off the property. The 15-mile downstream surface water pathway consists of the Norwalk River, Norwalk Harbor and Long Island Sound. There are no drinking water intakes along the downstream pathway. Approximately 20 miles of wetland frontage, a Clean Water Act (CWA)-protected water body, fishery, and an unknown number of State and Federal endangered or threatened species habitats occur along the 15-mile downstream surface water pathway. Analytical results of surface water and sediment samples collected from the Norwalk River in 1993 indicated the presence of calcium, acetone, toluene, tetrachloroethylene, and trichloroethylene. Based on analytical results, a CWA -protected water body and fishery have been impacted.

    There are no known workers employed at the property. Approximately 4,162 people reside within 1-radial mile of the property. The nearest residence is located 0.2 miles southeast of the property. No known terrestrial sensitive environments are located on site, and no known schools or day-care centers are located within 200 feet of the property. Access to the property is unrestricted. Analytical results of surface soil samples collected from the property in 1993 indicated the presence of the polychlorinated biphenyl (PCB) Aroclor-1254, and the pesticides alpha chlordane, and gamma chlordane. Based on observations and conditions at the property and soil sampling results, potential impacts to nearby residential populations are unknown.

    Approximately 112,686 people, an unknown acreage of wetlands, three Federal endangered or threatened species habitats, and 11 State endangered or threatened species habitats occur within 4-radial miles of the property. No known laboratory qualitative air samples have been collected from the property. Based on the available data, no impacts to nearby residential populations or sensitive environments are known or suspected.

    The last known action at the Norwalk Landfill was the SI completed in 1993. According to available sources, the property currently has no ongoing remediation activity under CT DEP.”

    Personally, I would feel better if a source independent of both the City and the Feds could verify whether the property is hazardous or not.

  • 36 Lynn Higgins // Jul 10, 2007 at 5:05 pm

    As far as Veteran’s Memorial Park is concerned, it is still a completely unknown health factor. There is absolutely NO information on the substrate composition at any depth or location in that park at all. To me this is the real danger, even more so than Oyster Shell Park. We know ZERO about what is in or under the soil of that park. Just speculation, which is not the best way to make health decisions that might affect thousands.

  • 37 Mr Greenpeace // Jul 10, 2007 at 6:43 pm

    If there are records at the DPW , then someone should send them to the EPA, they have nothing on file as of recent, and as I had said many times over simply call Douglas Zimmerman at 1 860 424 3800 he is a district supervisor with the state. He had been up to last week taking calls of inquiry and could shed some light on Oyster park.He in return can give you the EPA site director so he could in return tell you what he doesn’t have on the same site.

    With all that has gone on in Norwalk a simple quetion was how safe is all the parcels that acccepted waste from business that used chemicals including the old superfund site.Yes other towns and cities have problems but what was the track record of Norwalk with old companies who had contaminated land.

    The DPW should be telling us soon what is the cost of cleaning out the storm drains with the fancy probably effective storm drain pollution collection systems that we all heard about minus the cost of maintenance. I suppose our city workers have done the course in Hazat to clean them out and the city has taken precautions to where to dispose of such waste by the ton..questions like these have not been addressed I wonder why?

    I won’t ask about the superfund site out here,,the news reporters seem to be lost when it comes to this issue as well,,

    I can tell my critics one thing when we do have dinner water from Norwalk is not on the menue,if it was that would mean I trust the powers to be to insure safety of my family like the parks.

    I would enjoy putting all the rumors to bed with one report that said no problems no worries no sign of contamination from any site in the city including the superfund site. Why samples were not taken when the superfund labs did their work on both parks being landfills is beyond any rule of thumb in the business.

    this issue has been brought to attention of the DEP and the EPA and the Advocate and the Hour within the last couple of months so call them ask them questions I’m sure they are expecting some interest.

    Where are the Brownfield reports have we paid for them yet? this was some substantial money in the form of grants correct? nows the time for some real input and not what happens at my dinner table..

  • 38 Aunt Bertha // Jul 10, 2007 at 6:53 pm

    There waas no information about the problem with the school playing fields in Stratford until people started talking about them.I don’t think the people on this site are miserable as #30 states. I think they question. And for the parents in Stratford the questioning lead to testing and then the test results lead to fixing the problem of the playing fields. I am all for being a miss mary sunshine and I LOVE NORWALK but you must not take everything at face value. There are ball fields that need to be looked at if my kids are going to play on them. I often wonder about some of the people I grew up with about their cancers and other problems being environmentally triggered. The 25 don’t scare me they enlighten me. :)

  • 39 Mr Greenpeace // Jul 10, 2007 at 7:27 pm

    Aunt Bertha, your right and with Stratford they had the Army plant a place I worked on in the 80,s there it was obvious that test wells were needed early on, government fence went up remediation was applied but only in the least amounts not to worry the public.But when your lucky enough to have such contaminated parcels of land. Bear in mind Stratford has two superfund sites that in itself tells you there was chemicals there as well, i hope Norwalk never took waste in from there thinking about profit back then and not health issues.

  • 40 Indiga // Jul 10, 2007 at 8:09 pm

    This may be off interest to Mr. Greenpeace and others interested in brownfields and waht’s being done in other cities…

    http://www.smartgrowth.org/calendar/evdetails.asp?evid=1955

  • 41 Aunt Bertha // Jul 10, 2007 at 9:13 pm

    I don’t want to believe that it was done with knowledge that these chemicals or asbestoes fibers would hurt us in the future. I think that things developed too fast and the waste that was created was just thrown away with out a care of what it’s half life would be in decay. If we only knew then what we know now sort of thing.

  • 42 Mr Greenpeace // Jul 10, 2007 at 9:19 pm

    it is Indiga, it also shows the concern and the common bond people have when it comes to the environment and what is happening in Norwalk. thank you for the link it shows what happens when people become involved .

    It will be interesting to hear about our own brownfield report and where the concern is here in Norwalk.They were so ready to get the report started, anyone have any idea where it is now in progress? anyone remember how much money was given to the report?
    It did cover the landfills correct? Who was the city liason to all of this?

    The facts in posting number #35 speak for themselves, when contacting the EPA there was a disturbing response to the fact the city was moving foreward when no written document of recent shows anyone has revisited the site at Oyster park and done anything substantial even though the state gave money to us for progress.The cart before the horse and while the political machines are taking credit for such grants no one seems to hold any answers.This is usaully not how its done when it comes to contaminated sites..

    I did ask what others are doing about their contaminated sites, as we see there are proactive internet sites to link on to and read.I trust this issue is addressed by the news sources I am willing to wait until after the festival no sense in alarming the public to rumors or educated suspicions and let city hall do damage control.This issue is clearly not in the budget for this pre electoral stance for mayor or state positions..so we wait for reports,,anyone seen the old police station one yet?

  • 43 Mr Greenpeace // Jul 10, 2007 at 9:41 pm

    they knew Aunt Bertha, when agent orange was found to be a health enemy Dow, Dupont and Baird was given permission to produce and still ship it abroad by the rail tank wagon for application long after they were banned here in the US,,the railroad used it on thier tracks, Our armed forces used it around barricks and installations the stuff worked.

    The government knew who there contractors were and what was was going to happen, hence the superfund project for companies who couldn’t afford a cleanup. Large companies knew the liability they let smaller companies in backwoods America produce products, Even GE knew the site they had in Pittsfield Mass was going to be a nightmare they were cleaning one end and still polluting on the same parcel.

    GE developed its own PCB cleanup methods when faced with its own cleanups,nothing was developed knowing the danger but because of profit for the most part did they go on the banished list until last ,,bear in mind most chemicals that did thier job never made the environmental friendly list until the end .

    The last hazardous cleanup up day in Norwalk turned up some interesting items,but did anyone see what the efforts of volunteers did produce,,its a shame the only PR that gets coverage generally comes with a picture while some of the hard working environmental issues are ignored I wonder why that is? Of course a lot of other issues that would highlight the good In the city go unreported as well.

  • 44 Indiga // Jul 10, 2007 at 10:09 pm

    Mr. Greenpeace is correct about GE. They knew. In the mid-1970’s (before anyone in the US had any inkling of PCB problems) GE created a substitute called Econol (I think) for transformers being shipped to Japan since Japan had outlawed PCBs due to the environmental problems. Yet GE continued to use PCBs and continued to pollute the Hudson. I know. I wrote the brochure touting the advantages of Econol. So they had a substitute way early on; just didn’t choose to use it until they were forced to.

  • 45 Anonymous // Jul 11, 2007 at 12:48 am

    God, there is no hope, Norwalk is a toxic dump and the government is hiding it, we will all be glowing in 2 weeks. I saw it all from the grassy knoll. You people are completely out of wack. The miserable and uninformed 25, including Mr Greenpeace. All you have to is to ask the Redevelopment where we stand on the brownfield study. The money came from a Federal grant and Redevelopment is the point agency. They can give you a status report, the money was not for cleanup it was for determining if various sites around the city were contaiminated. The DEP has been in touch with the DPW on Oyster Park and has issued a certifcate of closure after the second capping. Not every action taken by the DEP is listed on their website. As far as the storm drains, the contract has been apporved and they may have started, Mr Greenpeace again talking like you are from outer space, they are vacuum trucks that clean out the drains and the material is held in the tank like a vacuum cleaner, and then the company disposes of the material in a manner required by law. I know they will vacuum and then just dump it back into another drain. The uninformed and miserable 25. Now we are another love canal and Bhopal India. Oliver Stone has nothing on you people. In case you forgot he directed the fictional conspiracy movie on the JFK murder, which made a hero out of a deranged prosecutor Jim Garrison. You all are about the same. I am not keen on Moccia, but judging from the mistatments and inuendos, he is being blamed for all of this, maybe if he does get reelected you will move, as I have suggested in the past, Then his election would be a blessing. I95, RT15, Metronorth, RT7, RT1, North or South

  • 46 Aunt Bertha // Jul 11, 2007 at 8:11 am

    #45 with all do respect, Mayor Moccia was not blamed for all of this. In fact in some of the posting he is thanked for moving on getting something done abaout it.

  • 47 Jerry Aldrich // Jul 11, 2007 at 10:03 am

    “God, there is no hope, Norwalk is a toxic dump and the government is hiding it”

    FINALLY GETTING THE PICTURE, Huh!

    If you don’t know it is there, it CAN’T hurt you.

    You are starting to sound like an oil company executive, when questioned about high gas prices,

    “We don’t know anything about that.”

  • 48 Mr Greenpeace // Jul 11, 2007 at 3:55 pm

    I love the facts now that we are cleaning out the basins which according to news releases hold about 2 tons of matter containing hazardous waste before it goes into the sound. What is the going rate $100-$200 dollars a ton for dispoasl and how many collection systems do we have in place and what cost is involved to replace them ,,and are the workers our own DPW trained in the art of removal the safe way?

    was this going to over the $50,000 mark for disposal who knows the figures ,,I just wanted to know what the expected cost was, on that you can tell if its being done right another accountability problem I think.

    Yes vacume trucks can be used I thought that process was after the removal of the solid waste or pods collecting the pollutants,,

    Maybe our expert can tell us not using sand so it goes into the catch basin to enhance tonnage for disposal was a good idea using salt and chloride instead of sand this last winter is some areas.That was at least hindsight by the DPW.

    yes the redevelopement should know how the brownfeild report is doing it encompasses only property that can be used for what future tax dollars on property that someone owns that can make a dollar off of it,,I trust both parks will be a priority, and obscure areas of the city where no one cares about anyway..

    by the way contract has been signed for the storm drains ,,interesting how we have what 3 $100,000 dollar vac trucks with new bag houses sitting idle during this process? why a contract? why can’t our own trucks handle something so mundane accoring to posting 45..

    keep talking we are learning a lot from your facts

    I wonder if any of these drain collection systems are in place at vets park all one has to do is check the collection system and see if any chemicals are present,,and if we can’t do that lets see if the cost of disposal rises the more chemicals types that are found the more money for disposal..

    and then the company disposes material according to law,,we have an insider here lets listen to their words
    this is going to cost us money so when election time comes we can hear the saving of the sound crap while the rest of the thoughts are squelched,

    ,I don’t think so we have some pretty smart people out here that cannot be fooled by anyones rants including mine..they think for themselves and honestly have backgrounds that are far more out reaching than this blog..

    fact is so many projects are on the table and money that will be needed to simply look into this matter is earmarked for special projects,,whats anyone else think?

  • 49 Vet Park Junkie // Jul 11, 2007 at 4:11 pm

    Here, reading this thread evolve into the environment, I get, uh, frustrated. Bringing up Love Canal as an example for Norwalk? That was thirty years ago and there’s been a lot of water under the bridge in any way that you wish to parse this sentence. Why not bring up the pump at Cambridge and Broad?

    Gee, I visited Norwalk many years ago and asked, “Why is that park in the middle of the city?” “Old dump,” was the answer. Who’s surprised about that? Who’s surprised that it might contain foul crap? Who thinks that they’re the first to have a concern? To ask questions? To demand an answer? To think how to manipulate this politically?

    I like when passion lights a spark. But not when it starts to get twisted and manipulated. It seems that two comments into any thread and I read, “It’s Knoccia’s fault.” Humm. And we wonder why there aren’t volunteers.

    My frustration and concern is real. It’s real hard to pick through the opinions to determine facts, especially when they’re peppered with “Love Canal! GE! Jim Garrison!”

  • 50 Joe Carlotti // Jul 11, 2007 at 4:16 pm

    Vet Park Junkie wrote in in post 49:

    peppered with “Love Canal! GE! Jim Garrison!”

    OK what would you like us to call it. The Immaculate Conception?

Pages: [1] 2 » Show All

Leave a Reply